Is the sound quality different between AlexaCast and WHA?

Wiimer

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When I play the same song on Amazon Music at 24bit/192kHz, does AlexaCast and WHA match the audio quality exactly?

Is it possible that the sound quality and volume will differ slightly due to differences in signal paths, etc.?

It would be nice if there was measurement data, not subjective.

Thanks in advance!
 
Thank you :)

I asked this question because I have a few friends who have noticed the difference between the two sounds.
 
Thank you :)

I asked this question because I have a few friends who have noticed the difference between the two sounds.
I fear it’s imagination on their part, or an incorrect assumption that the different signal paths have an impact.
 
I fear it’s imagination on their part, or an incorrect assumption that the different signal paths have an impact.
Maybe.

I don't know the difference and I don't seem to have enough imagination. Or maybe I read ASR too much :LOL:
 
Volume could be different as the Wiim app has it's own volume.

Both the Wiim app and Amazon Music app have direct access to your music library and the Wiim app shows you the audio quality is the same.

Even if annoyingly the Amazon Music app stops showing the badge when using Alexa Cast.

This isn't unique to Wiim. When I use Akexa Cast direct to my Receiver you also lose the badge. Annoyingly the Yamaha MusicCast app doesn't show the audio quality so hard to know if it's bit perfect like Wiim or being resampled.
 
This isn't unique to Wiim. When I use Akexa Cast direct to my Receiver you also lose the badge. Annoyingly the Yamaha MusicCast app doesn't show the audio quality so hard to know if it's bit perfect like Wiim or being resampled.
AlexaCast to non Amazon devices, Wiim apart, is at best HD if not indeed lossy SD, so isn’t bit perfect. Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Heos etc all implement their access to Alexa and by extension AlexaCast thru an Alexa skill and don’t support hi res amazon music thru that route even though they support it natively. What sets WiiM apart is that they uniquely used the Amazon MRM stack to develop their interface so that their devices appear almost as native echo devices so can support the full range of amazon music.
 
AlexaCast to non Amazon devices, Wiim apart, is at best HD if not indeed lossy SD, so isn’t bit perfect. Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Heos etc all implement their access to Alexa and by extension AlexaCast thru an Alexa skill and don’t support hi res amazon music thru that route even though they support it natively.
Whilst I expect you're right, has this actually been confirmed?

Funnily enough I have this very question open with Yamaha support at the moment. They're conferring with engineers.

You're sure Alexa Skills don't support UHD (24/192)? My Yamaha receiver shows up as an Amazon MRM. You're saying it's still different?

Actually you're right my Wiim Pro shows up under Echo devices. My Yamaha doesn't.

I happen to think you're right btw but haven't read anywhere actually confirming this. Frustrating when my Yamaha shows up as an Alexa Cast device just like the Wiim does.

Thanks for the post btw. Interesting insight.
 
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I know from experience having been an Alexa and amazon music user since echos and their music service first became available in the UK (and from being a major contributor and admin on a large Alexa Facebook group). Amazon information on bit depth and sample rates supported on different devices (even their own) has always been thin on the ground and even one of their better help pages on Amazon Music (HD as it was) hasn't been updated or expanded upon in a while (viz. https://www.amazon.co.uk/b?ie=UTF8&node=3022219031).

I’ve been seeking a device to fully support hi res Amazon Music almost from the day it came out. I tried the echo link, but its digital out was constrained to 24/48 (which amazon would vaguely claim that it, like the echo studio, supported UHD without saying , yes it did, but at the lowest level, glossing over 24/96 and 24/192 support. I also suspect from my trials with a Wiim pro and Echo Studio that that’s also the limit for Alexa multiroom playback with echos devices). While my PC could support up to 24/192, it was at the opposite end of the room and wasn’t bit perfect, upsampling everything to the resolution set for the sound card. I moved to the 2nd gen fire tv cube when it supported up to 24/192 over hdmi, but again unfortunately not in a bit perfect manner. I then bought a Heos Link HS2 which was bitperfect over coax into my amp, but (referring back to its Alexa Heos skill, which is analogous to MusicCast) when casting to it from the amazon music app, all my amp showed was 24/48. However, my amp shows an incoming pcm stream as that when I was casting a lossy mp3 file too, so the consensus was that was all that the Heos skill was playing when casting from the amazon music app. This opinion was agreed with others in a similar setup.

Aside from the lack of concrete info from Amazon, it’s pointless trying to ask their front line support about it as frankly they’re generally pretty abysmal and wouldn’t have a clue about what was being asked, although if you’re lucky you might get one that could at least refer you to help pages that you had already read (and told them so).

In some respects, Apple are no better with their hi res offering, being rather opaque about how you can best play that on non apple kit. It’s as if the big players want to talk up their hi res offerings but go out of their way to prevent you from fully exploiting them…
 
but its digital out was constrained to 24/48 (which amazon would vaguely claim that it, like the echo studio, supported UHD without saying , yes it did, but at the lowest level, glossing over 24/96 and 24/192 support.
I saw this. It mentions nowhere it's only 24/48 due to the constraints on the outputs. Taking the mick just a bit.

but (referring back to its Alexa Heos skill, which is analogous to MusicCast) when casting to it from the amazon music app, all my amp showed was 24/48.
At least it says something. All you get using Alexa Cast via MusicCast is it saying "Digital" in the app and on-screen.

However, my amp shows an incoming pcm stream as that when I was casting a lossy mp3 file too, so the consensus was that was all that the Heos skill was playing when casting from the amazon music app. This opinion was agreed with others in a similar setup.
Thanks. It sounds like enough testing was done to come to a conclusion. Sometimes that's all you get.

Aside from the lack of concrete info from Amazon, it’s pointless trying to ask their front line support about it as frankly they’re generally pretty abysmal and wouldn’t have a clue about what was being asked, although if you’re lucky you might get one that could at least refer you to help pages that you had already read (and told them so).
Agreed. They're not trained to understand it, just read off support articles. Often the same ones they provide to the public anyway.

In some respects, Apple are no better with their hi res offering, being rather opaque about how you can best play that on non apple kit. It’s as if the big players want to talk up their hi res offerings but go out of their way to prevent you from fully exploiting them…
I've gleaned Amazon and Apple offer High Res because A: There's a market for it B: It looks good in marketing material.

But they know 24/192 is complicated even over a wire. They're intentionally vague as it's hoped many will assume they're getting 24/96 or 24/192 when they're not. The difference between all these audio levels can sometimes be subtle.

And most of their users will be using the wired headphones that used to come in the box, a bluetooth speaker or more expensive bluetooth earbuds like AirPods. None of which support High Res let alone able to pick up the difference in nuance anyway.

The fact Apple, Amazon and Google don't sell any device that supports 24/192 and I don't "think" Google have ever officially stated any Chromecast supports 24/96 except for the Chromecast Audio.

As far I can tell. there are no ways to listen to Apple Music's High Res audio wirelessly.

Thanks for the extra info btw. I had suspected Alexa Cast via MusicCast was resampling to at beat 24/48. I didn't play with it enough to try and discern if it was Lossy or Lossless. It could equally be either.

The MusiCast app is quite poor, so although it gives you bit perfect audio it's not a fun way to do this. I wasn't expecting the Wiim app to actually be decent.
 
My travel solutions, headphones only. Never tested in-house. No big fan from Apple Music, but very sometimes they score.
1. A Samsung S22 with an FiiO KA5 gives me Apple Music HD up to 24/192. At least for headphones.
Strange that it is easier to get Apple Music HiRes in Android than with their own devices. That is my on-the-walk setup. 2. The other way is my M15 DAP.
Their bs policy gives me one more reason to stay with Android.


IMG_1180.jpeg
 
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Hi.

I'm not as familiar with Amazon music as @Brantome, but I've had similar experiences with him. And I agree with his opinion.

By the way, I did a simple experiment before. I used an analyzer app on my phone to check the sound coming out of the tweeter.

The comparison is between YAMAHA AVR's Amazon Music and Alexacast. And there was a strange discovery.

Looking at the measurement results, "YAMAHA AVR's Alexacast" hardly produces sound above 17kHz. It doesn't look better than Spotify Connect in this respect. On the other hand, the WiiM's Alexacast is fine.

----
Test track: Pink noise (24bit/96kHz)
AVR MODE: Pure direct
Test method: I measured by placing the microphone of the phone at a distance of 1cm from the tweeter.
----
Note: This is not a professional and accurate measurement. The mountains that appear to be 23kHz are noise generated from inside the phone.

IMG_20230525_112500.jpgIMG_20230525_112648.jpgIMG_20230525_113202.jpgIMG_20230525_113724.jpgIMG_20230525_112149.jpg
 
However, my amp shows an incoming pcm stream as that when I was casting a lossy mp3 file too, so the consensus was that was all that the Heos skill was playing when casting from the amazon music app. This opinion was agreed with others in a similar setup.
Hi @Brantome,

My question to Yamaha AV Support: Yamaha RX-V4A: Alexa Cast doesn't show audio Bit or Sample Rate?

I've received a response that confirms what we thought:

We have had a response from our designers with regards to your question, when you use the Alexa cast option, this is using a lossy audio signal, whereas when you use the Amazon Music function from the MusicCast App, this is lossless and the bit rate is as you mention shown, we are unable to show the bit rate when Alexa cast is used, as this information is not set to your Yamaha from the Amazon App.
Many thanks
Yamaha Technical A/V


So there we have it. I doubt it's Lossy 24/192 for instance. So expecting it to be Lossy 24/48 or Lossy 16/44.1. Whatever it is. it's not bit perfect.

And not even capable of Amazon Music HD (Lossless 16/44.1).
 
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Hi @Brantome,

My question to Yamaha AV Support: Yamaha RX-V4A: Alexa Cast doesn't show audio Bit or Sample Rate?

I've received a response that confirms what we thought:

We have had a response from our designers with regards to your question, when you use the Alexa cast option, this is using a lossy audio signal, whereas when you use the Amazon Music function from the MusicCast App, this is lossless and the bit rate is as you mention shown, we are unable to show the bit rate when Alexa cast is used, as this information is not set to your Yamaha from the Amazon App.
Many thanks
Yamaha Technical A/V


So there we have it. I doubt it's Lossy 24/192 for instance. So expecting it to be Lossy 24/48 or Lossy 16/44.1. Whatever it is. it's not bit perfect.

And not even capable of Amazon Music HD (Lossless 16/44.1).
Lossy in an Amazon Music context is ‘SD” i.e. MP3 at a max bitrate of 320Kbps. CD quality lossless 16/44.1 is 1440kbps in comparison.
 
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