Navigating a large music library

BlueGrin

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2023
Messages
5
I've had my WiiM Mini for just a couple of days, and am already losing patience. I'm hoping that there is something I am missing that might help.

I bought the WiiM for really only one purpose - I stream FLAC files from a local NAS to my living room amp. It's a Yamaha R-N303 and more or less already does what I need through MusicCast (lossless casting of my library). Where I've been dissatisfied is with the MusicCast app, which is slow and clunky and not easy to navigate.

I was hoping that the WiiM would solve the issues I had. Since it's a streamer, and all of the reviews mentioned the app as a selling point, I assumed that the app implementation would be far more streamlined and robust with features. I knew that the metadata from PlexAmp would be a lot to ask for, but even just making the general organization a little less painless would be an improvement. I bought the WiiM mini as a trial, figuring if I'd like it, I could invest in a Pro and a few additional ones to integrate in other rooms of my house.

Installing it was easy, but not without hiccups. I was able to get 24/192 audio passed to the Yamaha easily, so that's a plus. I had to restart the app multiple times to get it to find my server, and there doesn't seem to be any persistent retention (if I close the app and restart it, it needs to search the network again for the same server, which has taken between 2 and 6 minutes each time).

But again, if the app worked for navigating my library, I'd even put up with that. Unfortunately, it seems to be a step back and provides absolutely no value to me. It's even worse than MusicCast.

Right now, I have a library of about 800 artists, 3500 albums, and individual 50,000 tracks. I use PlexAmp on my phone and it works great... I can navigate swiftly and easily and get to exactly what I want to listen to. I know that there are myriad of requests for PlexAmp integration, and I'll join that chorus.

But in the meantime, it seems there are simple things that could be implemented to just make the WiiM software passable.

When I open the list of artists, it starts at 'A,' (or rather before 'A' with numbers like 2Pac, 10,000 Maniacs and 16 Horsepower). In order to get to the artist I want, I need to manually scroll. Trying to listen to the Rolling Stones, it just took me 30 swipes, and I had to pause 4 times (because I swiped too fast and got ahead of the list). The whole process took about 2 minutes. This is simply not useful in any way, shape or form.

On the MC app, I have a similar problem, but at least there is a scroll bar so I can quickly skim ahead to roughly the part of the alphabet. On PlexAmp, there's an alphabetical list by the scroll bar so that I could jump directly to any letter. Either of those would at least be functional, but manually scrolling through 30 screens is not a sustainable path.

I do like Aaliyah, a-ha, Aerosmith, Alice in Chains and the Allman Brothers , but occasionally I enjoy listening to artists whose names don't just start with 'A' and don't want to have to budget scrolling time into my listening session. Forget about scrolling to an album directly - it would take years to get to Yellow Submarine.

Oh well, I figured, at least I can search directly, right? That'll be annoying to have to type it in, but it'll let me jump right where I want to go. Well, that just seems to be a failure. No matter what I search for, I get "No search result." What, if anything, is the search function actually searching? Because I'm pretty sure that at least some music exists out there and the search function seems incapable of finding any of it.

At this point, I don't know what I would use this for if it can't even replace the built-in app for my amp. A scroll bar isn't too much trouble to ask for, is it? I feel like that's GUI 101 and its absence is conspicuous. Is that a feature request I could hope to have in the near future? Is there a way to get the search function to point to my DLNA server? Is there any hope of being able to losslessly cast with PlexAmp in the near future? Is there any other solution that will make this workable?

If the answer to these are no, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to return it. It was a valiant effort, and it's the first streamer I've found that comes close to hitting the mark, but it's just not usable for a home NAS library of any size if you can't find the music you want.
 
I suppose I should mention - I'm using the android app on my phone, and have another android tablet that I would dedicate as a remote if I can get this sorted.
 
Plenty of things you've mentioned here depends on the DLNA server features. Searching will work if the server has a search function implemented. A folder structure or metadata tree structure relies on the server setup. It will help a lot if you can define your structure to have artists grouped by the first letter for example. It could be similar to this

1677621582165.png

in case of Synology Media Server.
 
Could you install another media server on your nas? I'm assuming you currently use plexamp.
What about a different client, such as bubbleupnp?
I, too, find the wiim app immature in such regards. I run minimserver (free) on my nas, and splashed out about A$10 iirc on bubbleupnp.
So worth it...

The lack of a scroll bar / side alphabet is certainly a problem, which has been brought to their attention before.

Maybe a silly question - you're using the search within the Home Music Share screens, at the top right, not the one on the main bar along the bottom?
Edit - looks like the main (bottom) search now searches music shares too - it didn't use to!
 
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Thanks for the responses..

So yeah, I've been just using Plex Server for the most part, I have to run that anyway for my home theater and Rokus.

I've tried minimserver and jellyfin in the past, but that was a few years ago when my media was on a windows desktop and they never really worked smoothly. May try my hand at configuring one on the NAS now that that's set up. I found Synology Media Server to be less configurable than Plex, but maybe I'm missing something.

Even so, I get that a lot of this is dependent upon the server set-up but the data structure is already pretty well implemented, it's navigating that tree where it becomes torturous. Fixing the Search and manually grouping the Album Artists by letter are all kludges and at the end of the day, it doesn't seem like the WiiM app is ready for prime time for what I want, and the more I use it, the more I understand the issues with responsiveness. It just feels slow and imprecise.

I think the solution is, in fact, BubbleUPNP. I haven't looked at it in years, but even that was a step up from MC. But then I can just cast directly to the Yamaha, so not sure what I need the WiiM itself for? Are you able to still synchronize multiple WiiMs into groups if you're casting to them with third party apps?

(and for the silly question - I didn't even see a search within the home music share screens - presuming that's because Plex didn't have it set up)
 
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Will the Yamaha show up as a renderer in bubble? Will it render gapless, if that's important to you?
Pretty easy, and free, to test I guess!

As for "...multiple WiiMs into groups if you're casting to them with third party apps", I don't know.
Only got a single mini, but I'm sure there are plenty others here who could comment.
 
So, yep, just tested it and the Yamaha shows up. Apparently, I'd already paid for the full BubbleUPnP, so maybe just needed the right environment where it's useful to me now, because I think it's exactly what I'd hoped the WiiM App would be.

Not going to double down on the WiiM just yet and get a second as I'd originally hoped, but it's a cool enough gadget and I have at least one other room where it could be useful just as a renderer, so I'll hang on to it and hope the software matures. In the meantime, I'm going to test out other server implementations to see if I can improve the structure and functions when I feel like banging my head against a wall.
 
I would agree with @BlueGrin that WHA can be widely improved.
As an example there is only one sorting option for albums. Album Name.
it’s insufficient! At least i would have
Artist Name
Last Added
I have asked to @WiiM Support for these options many time, but for now…nothing.
Me too even if not so large as @BlueGrin i have a large library and finding a specific album it’s a MESS. Pages and pages of scrolling.
Moral? Moral is that i don’t use WHA.
I find a very very good idea a scrolling bar with letter, so you can jump quicly where you want to go.
I have the scrolling bar with letters in my IPad and inside Amazon Music Unlimited App. Very useful.
 
I agree entirely that the WiiM Home App isn't what it says on the tin at all but I only really used it to set up my WiiM Mini in the first place.

I am using the Mini as an endpoint for LMS and control it via the Material skin on my iPhone. Because Material and LMS are so good at the sort of things you mention above I have no need for the WiiM app at all now.

I use Plex for Video but not for Audio due to its lack of support for hgh end devices.

If your Synology supports Docker then I would take a look at LMS if I were you.
 
I just stumbled over this thread and really I don't understand. I use foobar2000 with the upnp plugin and it works flawlessly for almost 40.000 songs. When you complain about how bad it is to navigate through your music library, well, blame your music server software. Grouping, sorting, ORGANIZING is entirely the task of your music server software. Don't expect the Wiim app to solve all the problems you have on your server side. I just took a quick look at Plex amp and it looks like one of those terrible pieces of music organizing software that support sloppy file tagging. Try foobar2000, Minim or something else as a server and get that right.
 
I just stumbled over this thread and really I don't understand. I use foobar2000 with the upnp plugin and it works flawlessly for almost 40.000 songs. When you complain about how bad it is to navigate through your music library, well, blame your music server software. Grouping, sorting, ORGANIZING is entirely the task of your music server software. Don't expect the Wiim app to solve all the problems you have on your server side. I just took a quick look at Plex amp and it looks like one of those terrible pieces of music organizing software that support sloppy file tagging. Try foobar2000, Minim or something else as a server and get that right.
I think you're missing the point. The organization of my library is fine. The server implementation for Plex could be a little better, but is still sufficient. I'm long since familiar with foobar, and it's got major issues on the server side as well (grouping by album artist is wonky) but yes, I've already "got that right" thank you very much.

It's not the organization that's the issue, it's the navigation.
The WiiM software is atrocious. Slow, buggy, inconsistent, missing critical features. It's not that hard to understand.
 
I just stumbled over this thread and really I don't understand. I use foobar2000 with the upnp plugin and it works flawlessly for almost 40.000 songs. When you complain about how bad it is to navigate through your music library, well, blame your music server software. Grouping, sorting, ORGANIZING is entirely the task of your music server software. Don't expect the Wiim app to solve all the problems you have on your server side. I just took a quick look at Plex amp and it looks like one of those terrible pieces of music organizing software that support sloppy file tagging. Try foobar2000, Minim or something else as a server and get that right.
Hi @MrSoul4470
You see, i don't use the WiiMs to cast personal libraries, so i have not a music server and i do'nt need it. I only cast from Qobuz & AMU so Foobar it's completely unuseful for me
 
So, yep, just tested it and the Yamaha shows up. Apparently, I'd already paid for the full BubbleUPnP, so maybe just needed the right environment where it's useful to me now, because I think it's exactly what I'd hoped the WiiM App would be.

Not going to double down on the WiiM just yet and get a second as I'd originally hoped, but it's a cool enough gadget and I have at least one other room where it could be useful just as a renderer, so I'll hang on to it and hope the software matures. In the meantime, I'm going to test out other server implementations to see if I can improve the structure and functions when I feel like banging my head against a wall.
Hi @BlueGrin
I'll tell you right away that your advice was GREAT!! :)
I solved all my problems on the fly.
I tried the free version of BubbleUPnP, which however has a streaming limit, and when I saw that it was the ideal App for me, I bought the license. It costs only 4€.
So what does BUPnP do? All :
1) The WPro was recognized immediately
2) Qobuz already exists within BUPnP
3) Now I can have music at 24/192 and gapeless
4) Not only that, but I also have the metadata; the articles; Qobuz choices and much more, practically like the native Qobuz App.
BUPnP also has countless settings and you can customize it to your liking, from the graphic aspect to the functionalities. I had to get carried away and explore the various menus, but, in the end, it's simple.
Another IMPORTANT thing, for me that I have a big library, there are many options to sort the albums. Finding a specific album takes seconds.
This is one of WHA's BIGGEST LEAKS. Albums are sorted by title only. Almost IMPOSSIBLE to find a specific album.
I also wrote to the @WiiM Support asking them to add at least 2 options to reorder the albums :
1) Artist Name
2) Last Added
as all Native Apps have, and more.
We'll see what happens. :unsure:
 
I tried the free version of BubbleUPnP, which however has a streaming limit, and when I saw that it was the ideal App for me, I bought the license. It costs only 4€.
So what does BUPnP do? All :
1) The WPro was recognized immediately
2) Qobuz already exists within BUPnP
3) Now I can have music at 24/192 and gapeless
4) Not only that, but I also have the metadata; the articles; Qobuz choices and much more, practically like the native Qobuz App.
In addition to the app, BubbleUPnP Server is another key ingredient to a killer UPnP setup. It allows you to proxy your UPnP renderer so that the server handles the playback queue rather than the phone/tablet. This means that you don't need to keep the app running in the background to advance the playlist, but also that the playback queue is held on the renderer, so you can share the queue with other people/devices.

It does offer a lot more than that including transcoding, providing internet access, proxying google cast devices so they can be used in a UPnP setup e.t.c. but I use it mostly for queue management.
 
@BlueGrin : In your first post you complain about endless scrolling due to missing grouping. But grouping should be done by your music server software if necessary. That's really not something you should expect from a client. Like I said, I use foobar and I can find any album / artist or whatever within less than 20 seconds. And how is grouping by album artist wonky in foobar? I mean, of course it also depends on how you tag your files. But I agree with you that the Wiim app isn't perfect but it's also not that bad.

@Maurizio : I understand. That's a different story. I play music from my personal library (DLNA) , Spotify Connect and Bandcamp via Chromecast. Works flawlessly. Cannot tell how things work with Qobuz and others.
 
I've had my WiiM Mini for just a couple of days, and am already losing patience. I'm hoping that there is something I am missing that might help.

I bought the WiiM for really only one purpose - I stream FLAC files from a local NAS to my living room amp. It's a Yamaha R-N303 and more or less already does what I need through MusicCast (lossless casting of my library). Where I've been dissatisfied is with the MusicCast app, which is slow and clunky and not easy to navigate.

I was hoping that the WiiM would solve the issues I had. Since it's a streamer, and all of the reviews mentioned the app as a selling point, I assumed that the app implementation would be far more streamlined and robust with features. I knew that the metadata from PlexAmp would be a lot to ask for, but even just making the general organization a little less painless would be an improvement. I bought the WiiM mini as a trial, figuring if I'd like it, I could invest in a Pro and a few additional ones to integrate in other rooms of my house.

Installing it was easy, but not without hiccups. I was able to get 24/192 audio passed to the Yamaha easily, so that's a plus. I had to restart the app multiple times to get it to find my server, and there doesn't seem to be any persistent retention (if I close the app and restart it, it needs to search the network again for the same server, which has taken between 2 and 6 minutes each time).

But again, if the app worked for navigating my library, I'd even put up with that. Unfortunately, it seems to be a step back and provides absolutely no value to me. It's even worse than MusicCast.

Right now, I have a library of about 800 artists, 3500 albums, and individual 50,000 tracks. I use PlexAmp on my phone and it works great... I can navigate swiftly and easily and get to exactly what I want to listen to. I know that there are myriad of requests for PlexAmp integration, and I'll join that chorus.

But in the meantime, it seems there are simple things that could be implemented to just make the WiiM software passable.

When I open the list of artists, it starts at 'A,' (or rather before 'A' with numbers like 2Pac, 10,000 Maniacs and 16 Horsepower). In order to get to the artist I want, I need to manually scroll. Trying to listen to the Rolling Stones, it just took me 30 swipes, and I had to pause 4 times (because I swiped too fast and got ahead of the list). The whole process took about 2 minutes. This is simply not useful in any way, shape or form.

On the MC app, I have a similar problem, but at least there is a scroll bar so I can quickly skim ahead to roughly the part of the alphabet. On PlexAmp, there's an alphabetical list by the scroll bar so that I could jump directly to any letter. Either of those would at least be functional, but manually scrolling through 30 screens is not a sustainable path.

I do like Aaliyah, a-ha, Aerosmith, Alice in Chains and the Allman Brothers , but occasionally I enjoy listening to artists whose names don't just start with 'A' and don't want to have to budget scrolling time into my listening session. Forget about scrolling to an album directly - it would take years to get to Yellow Submarine.

Oh well, I figured, at least I can search directly, right? That'll be annoying to have to type it in, but it'll let me jump right where I want to go. Well, that just seems to be a failure. No matter what I search for, I get "No search result." What, if anything, is the search function actually searching? Because I'm pretty sure that at least some music exists out there and the search function seems incapable of finding any of it.

At this point, I don't know what I would use this for if it can't even replace the built-in app for my amp. A scroll bar isn't too much trouble to ask for, is it? I feel like that's GUI 101 and its absence is conspicuous. Is that a feature request I could hope to have in the near future? Is there a way to get the search function to point to my DLNA server? Is there any hope of being able to losslessly cast with PlexAmp in the near future? Is there any other solution that will make this workable?

If the answer to these are no, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to return it. It was a valiant effort, and it's the first streamer I've found that comes close to hitting the mark, but it's just not usable for a home NAS library of any size if you can't find the music you want.
You allready have plexamp?! With the Wiim Pro you can continue to just use our plexamp app for navigating and cast from within the plexamp app to the Wiim Pro. No need to use the Wiim home app for navigating!
 
I forgot to mention that by using BubbleUPnP to listen to music from Qobuz, you can get the most out of the WiiM Mini as well.
In fact, the App sees the Mini and the Pro as 2 separate renderers and you can choose which one to use.
The Mini is cut off from the Chromecast. This could be a solution.
 
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