Unable to use line input with AirPlay 2 Output

Spiv

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Joined
Feb 22, 2023
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I think I made a mistake?

Just received my Wiim Pro and connected an audio source to the line in, but I can't figure out how to send it to an AirPlay 2 destination.

I'm beginning to think this isn't possible? The only info I see in the app and help is the ability to group multiple WiiM units together and have the line in content play on more than one Wiim?


I was really excited that I could use this to get physical CD player and/or Vinyl record player input routed to AirPlay 2 destinations such as Homepod and Sonos instead of buying a $700 Sonos AMP or Sonos Port to do it.

I guess the WiiM would need to also be an AiPlay 2 client so it can route the line in back over the network to other AirPlay 2 destinations?
 
I think I made a mistake?

Just received my Wiim Pro and connected an audio source to the line in, but I can't figure out how to send it to an AirPlay 2 destination.

I'm beginning to think this isn't possible? The only info I see in the app and help is the ability to group multiple WiiM units together and have the line in content play on more than one Wiim?


I was really excited that I could use this to get physical CD player and/or Vinyl record player input routed to AirPlay 2 destinations such as Homepod and Sonos instead of buying a $700 Sonos AMP or Sonos Port to do it.

I guess the WiiM would need to also be an AiPlay 2 client so it can route the line in back over the network to other AirPlay 2 destinations?
What you want to do can be done but not with a WiiM and it is a bit convoluted. You need a USB ADC e.g. Behringer UCA202 and a Pi (or other mini computer).

I know of 2 methods.
1). Install piCorePlayer & LMS on the Pi and configure UPnP/DLNA Bridge & AirPlay Bridge to output to Somos and HomePod respectively. piCorePlayer has a USB input mode which exposes as a playable URL in LMS.
2). Install Liquidsoap & Icecast onto the Pi and configure it to pass Alsa input through Liquidsoap to Icecast which presents as a playable Internet Radio type URL stream. Tune your Sonos device to that stream. Can you make a Homepod play a custom URL?
Both work. Both have significant lag.
I have an instance of 2. hanging off the Tape out of my HiFi and can stream CD, Vinyl, DAB etc anywhere in the house.

Edit.
3 methods.
3.) Use a Windows PC with Stream What Your Hear installed.
 
I am not certain about this but you might be able to bridge these devices with the Apple iOS Home app (if you have an iOS device).

Another thought, the WiiM Mini is $79 USD in the US. You could transmit/steam the signal from your WiiM Pro into the WiiM Mini with the multi-room feature, then output the Mini into your Sonos. $79 is a lot cheaper than $700. You can use the Mini as a second streamer too. I think it's better to stream directly from a WiiM into a speaker because you can get the highest sampling rate. Any transmission between WiiMs in multi-room I believe goes over 16/44.1 max sampling rate, in order to reduce network impact.

FWIW, just last night I set up a WiiM multi-room configuration so I can play my turntable into one WiiM and hear it on the other WiiM in a different room. I've wanted something like this for years and now I can finally do it.
 
How would you "output the Mini into your Sonos"? Apart from the Sonos Connect (and a possible 'cast to Sonos' that's mentioned in the WiiM roadmaps), I don't know how you'd achieve that
 
How would you "output the Mini into your Sonos"? Apart from the Sonos Connect (and a possible 'cast to Sonos' that's mentioned in the WiiM roadmaps), I don't know how you'd achieve that
OK, I thought the Sonos could take an audio input though a line in input? I guess there are many Sonos products and they have different inputs.
 
OK, I thought the Sonos could take an audio input though a line in input? I guess there are many Sonos products and they have different inputs.
From memory, they're not blessed with inputs - maybe just the Sonos Connect and Play 5, both of which are obsolete/obsolescent.
 
What you want to do can be done but not with a WiiM and it is a bit convoluted
Duh, yeah! That's what I wanted to avoid - kludgy/hacker/hobbyist "stuff".

I fix this now with a simple solution: Spend $$ on a Sonos Port, Sonos AMP, or Sonos Five, depending upon which is most appropriate for using their other features too.

A $50, $100, or $150 alternative that is a supported, released product is what the Wiim looked like. If they ever add direct AirPlay client support ("it is only software"), then I'll come back.

The Wiim Pro ability to use external DAC and possibly serve as the preamp for a turntable input was intriguing, but not if the audio is locked into the Wiim solution only.

FWIW, the rumored upcoming Sonos ONE replacement for around $200 may have Bluetooth and/or USB Aux line input as will the pricier Play 5 Replacement, with an optional dongle. That one is poised to be hot with upfiring Atmos speakers that can be configured as the rears in a home theater setup with Sonos ARC, Beam, and maybe AMP, as the front/LCR solution.

So this may all be moot if there is a $200 Sonos option to get BLE and line in into Sonos and AirPlay 2. (A $50 to $75 price premium to get line-in for Sonos directly from a Sonos supported solution is a worthwhile "tax" whereas the current AMP/Port/Five premium, if you don't need the other features of the box, is not.)
 
FYI, copied from a reply about this on the Sonos community forum…

There are no Sonos devices at all that can generate an AirPlay 2 signal. There are many Sonos devices that can receive an AirPlay 2 signal, including the Sonos Amp and the Sonos Port.

To my knowledge, Apple reserves the right to generate AirPlay 2 sources to their own hardware, and only license the ability to be an AirPlay 2 receiving device to other companies.
 
FYI, copied from a reply about this on the Sonos community forum…

There are no Sonos devices at all that can generate an AirPlay 2 signal. There are many Sonos devices that can receive an AirPlay 2 signal, including the Sonos Amp and the Sonos Port.

To my knowledge, Apple reserves the right to generate AirPlay 2 sources to their own hardware, and only license the ability to be an AirPlay 2 receiving device to other companies.
That was my suspicion too…
 
That was my suspicion too…
Sonos allows grouping Sonos devices with AirPlay 2 devices for output so it is relatively easy to take line in/aux input and distribute it to all AirPlay 2 and Sonos speakers in a home.
I don't know the mechanism, but that effectively requires Sonos to also act as an AirPlay 2 client/transmitter?


The "secret sauce" might be that Sonos has special licensing rights with Apple that other AirPlay 2 companies do not have? For a long time, Sonos was the only 3rd party company that could stream Apple Music directly from the cloud. Now Amazon and Google can do it, but not most other 3rd party devices.

Apple has been adding the Apple app to TV's and allowing them to stream Apple+ Video and Apple Music, but that has been a very recent development as they push their online streaming services ($$) at the expense of their own AppleTV lock-in.
 
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can group Sonos and Airplay 2 speakers when controlling them from an Apple source which would not give you access to the line in of the Port. You can only group Sonos devices from within the Sonos app which gives access to the line in. Works the same for the WiiMs. I own multiple WiiMs, Sonos devices, and HomePods. Can play on all at once from my Apple TV or HomePods or iPhone, but not from within Sonos or WiiM apps - then it’s to each it’s own.
 
Firstly, there is no mention on this limitation on the use of line in/aux in for Wiim in the Wiim Pro product description. It simply says it supports line inputs and also AirPlay 2.

Secondly, I only have a single Wiim Pro, so I'm going on what people here are saying and the bits and pieces I've found in the FAQ or support information.

Third, I was referring to grouping Sonos devices using the Sonos App, once grouped, my understanding is that you can add AirPlay 2 devices that are not Sonos speakers to the group and have the line input content played, in sync, on all the Airplay 2 receivers.

I currently don't have a a setup where I can immediately test that out firsthand, but might move some equipment around over the weekend and verify the Sonos capabilities myself.

I'm not debating, just trying to get to the bottom of what is and is not supported since the marketing/product info from Wiim is very incomplete and not clear on this.

I have no problem that you have passion for the Wiim products and willing to defend them, I'm not trying to die on this hill or another, just figuring out what can and cannot be done and move on from there.
 
Sonos Five in kitchen, Sonos connect in hobby room, Wiim mini in living room.
Group the connect with the Five, (the Five can receive airplay2). So for example in the Tidal app of Spotify app I can group (Airplay2) Sonos 5 with mini if want Them to play same music at the same time. Simple as that.
 
BTW, this is a good summary from Apple of Airplay capable transmitters and receivers. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208728

It is linked to from the Sonos support article on Airplay. As you see from the link, currently the only devices that are transmitters are Apple devices. They only license 3rd party products as receivers with the “Works with Airplay” badge. I certainly hope the OP doesn’t think I’m trying to argue. Just trying to help a lot of people that are confused over something that is confusingly presented in marketing materials. Why does Apple do this? Let me tell you what it was like “cracking” a Mac 512 case to upgrade it.🤞
 
Am I correct in stating that the TL;DR is:

Apple does not allow any 3rd party devices to be AirPlay 2 transmitters which is what is needed to be able to send line in/aux/external input audio to destination AirPlay 2 receivers.

Workarounds involve using an Apple device as a software bridge to input the audio and use the Apple device to transmit the audio out to AirPlay 2 receivers - which can be both Apple products (HomePods, AppleTV) or any 3rd party product (certified AirPlay 2 receivers).

There have been/are some reverse-engineered software hacks for AirPlay transmitters, but none have yet to progress from AirPlay 1 to AirPlay 2 (various reasons including potential intellectual property violations)

3rd party products with line in/aux hardware are using proprietary protocol (or other non-AirPlay protocols ?) to send the audio stream to their own companion devices (Wiim, Sonos, others) but cannot transmit to Apple or other AirPlay 2 stream receivers.
 
Short answer, yes.

If you’ve already got a usb/thunderbolt “recording” device that can accept a line level input, you could capture it that way on a Mac or appropriately capable iDevice and use something like GarageBand to send it over AirPlay to everything.

Or you have to stay within the WiiM or Sonos ecosystem using their line in capabilities. Or something like the @d6jg solution and use Shairport (the unlicensed, reverse engineered clone), but that’s just starting to incorporate limited airplay 2 capability. I’m not sure it works casting to stereo paired HomePods either.

As a retired Sonos authorized retailer, let me rain on your parade some more. The Era 100 is expected now to retail at $250 in the US. It will have a USB-C line in (needs dongle for analog) but no up firing Atmos capability. That will be reserved for the Era 300, expected to be about $450 each. Trust me, I’d rather be telling you the beer is free today.😁
 
Your weather report is not an issue. Sonos is either loved or hated. Fortunately, some of the folks I deal with, throwing money at a problem is the simplest and easiest solution. One of their issues with Sonos has been the lack of features, such as expanded Atmos options, at any price and no three channel (L,C,R) version of the AMP as an alternative for the soundbar in home theater setups without relying on phantom center (forever controversial perceived or real limitation).

I didn't expect the Era 100 to do anything for Atmos, so no surprise there. And I am sure the dongle for analog and/or Ethernet will cost a ridiculous amount by normal standards, but at least the options will exist.

I will be most curious if they get off their Apple-esque high horse and add some buttons for mere-mortal human controls. The Bluetooth support on existing Roam and Move is limited by the lack of usability. Especially the Roam - the hop on left foot to pair or reset the speaker is ridiculous. Don't even get me started on not being able to use Bluetooth until you've configured it for Wi-Fi first...
 
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