Wiim Pro - Gapless playback with Chromecast audio?
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Brantome
Moderator
This reply in relation to Qobuz would suggest that ChromeCast itself doesn’t support gapless https://wiim.community.forum/threads/qobuz-wiim-pro-and-mini.602/post-7041
Brantome, thank you for your reply and link. I checked out that thread. I'm not so sure (admittedly, my understanding is incomplete) . It seems to depend on both the renderer and software.
For example, I can use the android app "Hi-Fi Cast" to cast music from my upnp server to a google made Chromecast Audio hardware device and achieve gapless playback, despite the fact that the google made Chromecast Audio hardware device does not support gapless playback (the same type of software managed "single audio flux" work-around referenced in the thread to which you linked). It seems to be a deficiency of the google hardware device itself, rather than the chromecast protocol, but I could be wrong...
That's why I'm hoping the Wiim Pro can do gapless playback with chromecast audio, assuming the protocol does indeed allow for it.
For example, I can use the android app "Hi-Fi Cast" to cast music from my upnp server to a google made Chromecast Audio hardware device and achieve gapless playback, despite the fact that the google made Chromecast Audio hardware device does not support gapless playback (the same type of software managed "single audio flux" work-around referenced in the thread to which you linked). It seems to be a deficiency of the google hardware device itself, rather than the chromecast protocol, but I could be wrong...
That's why I'm hoping the Wiim Pro can do gapless playback with chromecast audio, assuming the protocol does indeed allow for it.
Mr Ee
Major Contributor
Don't get your hopes up, I'd be very, very surprised if you got gapless.
Maybe someone here with apple music can test and report?
Maybe someone here with apple music can test and report?
Expanding the conversation a bit; Under what circumstances can I use the Wiim Pro for gapless playback? I assume that I could use the BubbleUpnp android app to stream music from my server to the Wiim Pro, since both the control point software and renderer support gapless playback.
I'm more interested in streaming services. Can I stream gapless from Apple music using a method other than the android app, if it turns out the chromecast protocol can't support gapless? Can I stream gapless from Qobuz?
I'd like to find out before I make my purchase. I don't want to buy one only to find out that my gapless options are as limited as they currently are with my Chromecast Audio devices. I did try searching before starting this thread, just didn't seem to find the answers I need.
Many thanks for any replies that can provide me with some insight.
I'm more interested in streaming services. Can I stream gapless from Apple music using a method other than the android app, if it turns out the chromecast protocol can't support gapless? Can I stream gapless from Qobuz?
I'd like to find out before I make my purchase. I don't want to buy one only to find out that my gapless options are as limited as they currently are with my Chromecast Audio devices. I did try searching before starting this thread, just didn't seem to find the answers I need.
Many thanks for any replies that can provide me with some insight.
Mr Ee
Major Contributor
I believe playing pretty much anything via the Wiim home app (wha) is gapless, ditto for bubble on android.
I'll caveat that by saying my experience is reasonably limited from the plethora of services available.
Tidal, qobuz, deezer, amazon, soundcloud, my nas files - all worked fine iirc from wha, but that's not chromecast!
Tidal, qobuz, my nas files - all fine from bubble. Again, not chromecast.
Spotify connect, Tidal connect - fine.
Amazon alexacast (different to chromecast) - fine.
Also, we'd certainly hope, and expect, qobuz connect to be gapless when it arrives. When, not if
I've not used anything that works gapless with chromecast.
Yes, roon does, and seemingly some other things that create a single stream to chromecast.
Edit: to answer (or, rather, not answer) your question about apple music - I don't know what other options there are for streaming it to a wiim device that might give you gapless playback.
I'll caveat that by saying my experience is reasonably limited from the plethora of services available.
Tidal, qobuz, deezer, amazon, soundcloud, my nas files - all worked fine iirc from wha, but that's not chromecast!
Tidal, qobuz, my nas files - all fine from bubble. Again, not chromecast.
Spotify connect, Tidal connect - fine.
Amazon alexacast (different to chromecast) - fine.
Also, we'd certainly hope, and expect, qobuz connect to be gapless when it arrives. When, not if
I've not used anything that works gapless with chromecast.
Yes, roon does, and seemingly some other things that create a single stream to chromecast.
Edit: to answer (or, rather, not answer) your question about apple music - I don't know what other options there are for streaming it to a wiim device that might give you gapless playback.
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Chromecast's aren't gapless. I believe Hi-Fi cast essentially downloads the tracks and then casts a gapless stream to it.
If you have a chromecast video device you can easily test this for yourself. If you disable gapless playback in Hi-Fi Cast and send an album to the device the screen will update with the track name as the queue progresses, but with gapless enabled it just displays 'Gapless playback starting with: XXXX' and that doesn't change.
I've just installed an Apple Music trial and Dark Side of the Moon wasn't gapless using Chromecast on the PRO, and I can't see any options to replicate the Hi-Fi Cast behaviour.
If you have a chromecast video device you can easily test this for yourself. If you disable gapless playback in Hi-Fi Cast and send an album to the device the screen will update with the track name as the queue progresses, but with gapless enabled it just displays 'Gapless playback starting with: XXXX' and that doesn't change.
I've just installed an Apple Music trial and Dark Side of the Moon wasn't gapless using Chromecast on the PRO, and I can't see any options to replicate the Hi-Fi Cast behaviour.
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@Mr Ee - Ok that's lots of good gapless options. Perhaps I should just use Qobuz rather than Apple Music.
@simbun - yes, I'm aware that google chromecast devices don't support gapless, and Hi-Fi Cast uses a work around. I was holding out a hope that perhaps the cast protocol could support it (with different hardware e.g. Wiim). Thank you very much for trying the Apple Music android app and reporting back! Confirms what Mr Ee suspected.
Funny thing is, my android phone has a decent DAC. I can use the Apple Music app, play gapless, and play all sample rates without down-sampling, by simply connecting the phone's output to my stereo with an aux cable. But to replicate that listening experience wirelessly seems to be impossible!
Does anyone know if using the iOS Apple Music app and connecting to the Wiim Pro via Airplay2 will allow for gapless playback? That may be the best option, even though Airplay 2 is limited to 24-bit/48kHz
@simbun - yes, I'm aware that google chromecast devices don't support gapless, and Hi-Fi Cast uses a work around. I was holding out a hope that perhaps the cast protocol could support it (with different hardware e.g. Wiim). Thank you very much for trying the Apple Music android app and reporting back! Confirms what Mr Ee suspected.
Funny thing is, my android phone has a decent DAC. I can use the Apple Music app, play gapless, and play all sample rates without down-sampling, by simply connecting the phone's output to my stereo with an aux cable. But to replicate that listening experience wirelessly seems to be impossible!
Does anyone know if using the iOS Apple Music app and connecting to the Wiim Pro via Airplay2 will allow for gapless playback? That may be the best option, even though Airplay 2 is limited to 24-bit/48kHz
Brantome
Moderator
Don’t know about gapless, but I fear the best you’ll get out of Apple Music using airplay is lossy AAC. I know WiiM have been trying to get “permission” from Apple to support 24/48 but I believe it’s a tough climb.
I don’t things have moved on from the status in this article https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/bits-and-bytes/apple-music-lossless-mess-part-2-airplay-r1026/
I did some experimenting and found how to get gapless playback on Android using Apple music. What you have to do is connect to the Wiim Pro from the "Home" app by Google and cast your audio to it. Then you play you song from Apple music and you should have gapless.
What I don't know about this method is what quality is being passed. I'm assuming the phone is acting as a DAC here. Would really love to know what other think. The Wiim app doesn't display any information when doing this. It thinks nothing is playing.
What I don't know about this method is what quality is being passed. I'm assuming the phone is acting as a DAC here. Would really love to know what other think. The Wiim app doesn't display any information when doing this. It thinks nothing is playing.
Balthazar B
Major Contributor
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Well, if you have an external DAC with a USB input, you could also bypass the WiiM and connect your phone directly to the DAC with an OTG cable. That way, you'll get gapless as well as full hi-def playback. If you want multiroom via WiiM devices, I think you can then send your DAC's or preamp's output to a WiiM cluster.
Definitely not as easy or convenient as a Chromecast environment, but in my limited testing (not including multiroom) it works. I keep hoping the light bulb goes on at Apple to enable an Apple Connect capability similar to Spotify, Tidal, Amazon, and soon Qobuz.
Sorry to revive an old post, but I see there are no definitive answers if I am not wrong.
Today I tried to use WiiM chromecast from the Qobuz app in windows, and it is definitively (as expected) not gapless.
I really hope that "Qobuz Connect" is implemented soon.
Today I tried to use WiiM chromecast from the Qobuz app in windows, and it is definitively (as expected) not gapless.
I really hope that "Qobuz Connect" is implemented soon.
Balthazar B
Major Contributor
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AFAIK, there are no longer any streaming services that can play gaplessly via Chromecast. The only one I'm aware of that did -- and it had to do with how they stored and served up their content -- was the late Google Play Music.
I think it's a good sign that Qobuz has been more specific about how and when they expect to make Qobuz Connect GA, at least through a limited number of CE manufacturers at first (Denon and WiiM have been mentioned by name). I hope they're underpromising with their 1H2024 talk and will overdeliver, but I wouldn't make any predictions.
I think it's a good sign that Qobuz has been more specific about how and when they expect to make Qobuz Connect GA, at least through a limited number of CE manufacturers at first (Denon and WiiM have been mentioned by name). I hope they're underpromising with their 1H2024 talk and will overdeliver, but I wouldn't make any predictions.
Sure, agreed, Chromecast is not gapless at the protocol level afaik. So the only way is to create a fake continuous stream but this would be problematic when switching sampling rates.
Also being limited to 24/96 doesn't allow to stream hires content without resampling.
I am happy to have chromecast functionality available though, but I consider it as a last chance, of for convenience.
I am really waiting for the qobuz connect implementation to become `GA` hopefully soon.
Thank you!
Also being limited to 24/96 doesn't allow to stream hires content without resampling.
I am happy to have chromecast functionality available though, but I consider it as a last chance, of for convenience.
I am really waiting for the qobuz connect implementation to become `GA` hopefully soon.
Thank you!
Brantome
Moderator
There’s no resampling of the received file as Qobuz will only send a 24/96 file for playback based on the device capability. Where it gets that 24/96 file is another matter
Also, under 10% of the major streaming services’ catalogues are hi res (24/48 and above) so the actually proportion of tracks over 24/96 is even smaller.
And that‘s leaving aside audibility
I read once again what you were saying and one question arises.
You say:
There’s no resampling of the received file as Qobuz will only send a 24/96 file for playback based on the device capability
But we don't see a 24/96 version for every 24/192 release. How do you know there is a 24/96 release being streamed, and that it's not Qobuz resampling to 24/96 when streaming to a Chromecast?
You say:
There’s no resampling of the received file as Qobuz will only send a 24/96 file for playback based on the device capability
But we don't see a 24/96 version for every 24/192 release. How do you know there is a 24/96 release being streamed, and that it's not Qobuz resampling to 24/96 when streaming to a Chromecast?
