WiiM Pro Preview

Witterings · Jan 24, 2023

WiiM Support said:
Hi Witterings,

Sorry for our late reply. The WiiM Pro can support the Ultra/HD cast from the Amazon App to group of WiiM Pro devices or a group of WiiM Pro and Echo devices (latest Echo devices). To do this, you need group the devices from the Alexa App not the WiiM Home App. In the WiiM Home App, when grouping, it still down-sample the Hi-Res audio to 48kHz sample rate. Please give it a try and let us know if it works for you. Thank you!

Thank you for the reply ... it was more to know as I'd only upgrade from the Mini's if it was possible otherwise there was no point for me anyway.

I know @Brantome has tried grouping his Pro with an Echo Studio and it didn't work, I'm not sure how he grouped them though via Alexa App of WiiM App.

Brantome · Jan 24, 2023

WiiM Support said:
Hi Witterings,

Sorry for our late reply. The WiiM Pro can support the Ultra/HD cast from the Amazon App to group of WiiM Pro devices or a group of WiiM Pro and Echo devices (latest Echo devices). To do this, you need group the devices from the Alexa App not the WiiM Home App. In the WiiM Home App, when grouping, it still down-sample the Hi-Res audio to 48kHz sample rate. Please give it a try and let us know if it works for you. Thank you!

Hi, as you're aware, the best I could achieve with my Pro and Echo Studio in an MRM group was 48kHz:

1. Are you also saying that a group of 2 WiiM Pros in an Alexa MRM group can only achieve 48kHz?
2. If so, is this an Alexa MRM stack restriction? So no matter how capable the WiiM Pro may be, Amazon themselves impose a limit of lossless 24/48 on Alexa MRM groups? I tried asking Amazon support this question but was stonewalled by agents who barely understood the question
3. Can this be bettered with Linkplay multi room either now in the future, albeit I guess that would need to be from the WiiM, not Amazon Music app?

Thanks

Brantome · Jan 24, 2023

Witterings said:
Thank you for the reply ... it was more to know as I'd only upgrade from the Mini's if it was possible otherwise there was no point for me anyway.

I know @Brantome has tried grouping his Pro with an Echo Studio and it didn't work, I'm not sure how he grouped them though via Alexa App of WiiM App.

It did work (albeit with some niggles like the WiiM app then being unable to control playback) by grouping in the Alexa app, but was capped at 24/48. As you'll see from my comment above, I have no clue as to whether than limit came from the Echo Studio being in the group or maybe from a more basic level that Amazon themselves don't support anything better than 24/48 in MRM groups given that's the best their own echos appear to support. It's frustrating if that is is the case, and even more frustrating to try and get someone in Amazon who can even understand the question

WiiM Support · Jan 24, 2023

Brantome said:
Hi, as you're aware, the best I could achieve with my Pro and Echo Studio in an MRM group was 48kHz:

1. Are you also saying that a group of 2 WiiM Pros in an Alexa MRM group can only achieve 48kHz?
2. If so, is this an Alexa MRM stack restriction? So no matter how capable the WiiM Pro may be, Amazon themselves impose a limit of lossless 24/48 on Alexa MRM groups? I tried asking Amazon support this question but was stonewalled by agents who barely understood the question
3. Can this be bettered with Linkplay multi room either now in the future, albeit I guess that would need to be from the WiiM, not Amazon Music app?

Thanks

Hi Brantome,

Only certain Echo devices such as Echo show 15 support the Hi-Res multiroom audio. Echo studio may not support the MRM group more than 48kHz. For other questions, see my comments below.

Q1 - You can achieve Hi-Res multiroom audio with 2 WiiM Pro when you group them in the Alexa app. By Hi-Res, I meant it can be more than 48kHz and up to 192k. If you see different results, please shot us a ticket.

Q2 - see my Q1's reply.

Q3 - Yes, Hi-Res multiroom is in our roadmap. However, the WiiM Pro supports the Hi-Res multiroom audio when you group two Alexa Hi-Res multiroom audio enabled devices (such as WiiM Pro, Echo show 10/15). I will get the list of Echo devices that support Hi-Res multiroom audio later.

Witterings · Jan 24, 2023

WiiM Support said:
Hi Brantome,

Only certain Echo devices such as Echo show 15 support the Hi-Res multiroom audio. Echo studio may not support the MRM group more than 48kHz. For other questions, see my comments below.

Q1 - You can achieve Hi-Res multiroom audio with 2 WiiM Pro when you group them in the Alexa app. By Hi-Res, I meant it can be more than 48kHz and up to 192k. If you see different results, please shot us a ticket.

Q2 - see my Q1's reply.

Q3 - Yes, Hi-Res multiroom is in our roadmap. However, the WiiM Pro supports the Hi-Res multiroom audio when you group two Alexa Hi-Res multiroom audio enabled devices (such as WiiM Pro, Echo show 10/15). I will get the list of Echo devices that support Hi-Res multiroom audio later.

I'm at least 95% sure the Studio supports up to192k, I researched this before buying my WiiM mini and as the Studio had no optical out and I thought their DAC would be the limitation bought the WiiM instead.

Brantome said:
It did work (albeit with some niggles like the WiiM app then being unable to control playback) by grouping in the Alexa app, but was capped at 24/48.

Apologies .... my bad choice of wording, I meant the 192 wasn't working rather than it working than being capped.

Brantome · Jan 24, 2023

WiiM Support said:
Hi Brantome,

Only certain Echo devices such as Echo show 15 support the Hi-Res multiroom audio. Echo studio may not support the MRM group more than 48kHz. For other questions, see my comments below.

Q1 - You can achieve Hi-Res multiroom audio with 2 WiiM Pro when you group them in the Alexa app. By Hi-Res, I meant it can be more than 48kHz and up to 192k. If you see different results, please shot us a ticket.

Q2 - see my Q1's reply.

Q3 - Yes, Hi-Res multiroom is in our roadmap. However, the WiiM Pro supports the Hi-Res multiroom audio when you group two Alexa Hi-Res multiroom audio enabled devices (such as WiiM Pro, Echo show 10/15). I will get the list of Echo devices that support Hi-Res multiroom audio later.

Hi, I’m afraid that’s not my experience. I also have a Show 15 so created a MRM group in the alexa app with it and my WiiM Pro but on casting a 24/192 track from my iPad Amazon Music app to that group, I’m still only getting 24/48 from the Pro. I’ll submit another ticket referencing this post so you can cross check.

Is this perhaps a regional issue? As a long term Alexa user, I’m well aware that the Alexa setup and software infrastructure is different in the USA as it is elsewhere - when checking , could you perhaps determine whether that might explain why I’m not getting anything better than 24/48 when grouping my Show 15 with the Pro?

Thanks again

Witterings · Jan 24, 2023

Brantome said:
Hi, I’m afraid that’s not my experience. I also have a Show 15 so created a MRM group in the alexa app with it and my WiiM Pro but on casting a 24/192 track from my iPad Amazon Music app to that group, I’m still only getting 24/48 from the Pro. I’ll submit another ticket referencing this post so you can cross check.

Is this perhaps a regional issue? As a long term Alexa user, I’m well aware that the Alexa setup and software infrastructure is different in the USA as it is elsewhere - when checking , could you perhaps determine whether that might explain why I’m not getting anything better than 24/48 when grouping my Show 15 with the Pro?

Thanks again

What happens if you group the Echo and the Show .... can you see if your getting 24/192 then?

Also off the Amazon website in about the 4th question down headed - How can I find and play HD and Ultra HD Audio Music on my Alexa-enabled device?

To play Ultra HD music on your Echo Studio

Amazon.co.uk: Amazon Music HD FAQs: Digital Music

Online shopping for Amazon Music HD FAQs from a great selection at Digital Music Store.

www.amazon.co.uk

WiiM Support · Jan 24, 2023

Witterings said:
What happens if you group the Echo and the Show .... can you see if your getting 24/192 then?

Also off the Amazon website in about the 4th question down headed - How can I find and play HD and Ultra HD Audio Music on my Alexa-enabled device?

Amazon.co.uk: Amazon Music HD FAQs: Digital Music

Online shopping for Amazon Music HD FAQs from a great selection at Digital Music Store.

www.amazon.co.uk

Hi Team,

Let me talk to our eng team for your issues. I have a very good confidence that this has been supported in the WiiM Pro. Please stay tuned!

Brantome · Jan 24, 2023

Witterings said:
I'm at least 95% sure the Studio supports up to192k, I researched this before buying my WiiM mini and as the Studio had no optical out and I thought their DAC would be the limitation bought the WiiM instead.

I was hopeful but never sure that the Studio supported up to 24/192 - where did your 95% confidence come from? In fact, I'm sure there's a Wired article which says that the Studio, while supporting UHD, caps it at 24/48 - I was never quite sure how they could determine that, and had thought they had perhaps inferred that from the Echo Link's digital output spec. The best that I've found over the years (and I'm pretty long in the tooth when it comes to Alexa and Amazon Music) is that all echos from gen 2 on support HD, and that only the Studio, Link and Link Amp support UHD (leaving aside Fire TV devices) but with no further clarification to what level. Maybe the available links haven't been updated for the Show 15 etc - I'll need to play around with that a bit more.
Amazon support are hopeless trying to answer queries around this - I don't know if they're obfuscasting or more likely just don't know nor understand the questions...

Brantome · Jan 24, 2023

Witterings said:
What happens if you group the Echo and the Show .... can you see if your getting 24/192 then?

Also off the Amazon website in about the 4th question down headed - How can I find and play HD and Ultra HD Audio Music on my Alexa-enabled device?

Amazon.co.uk: Amazon Music HD FAQs: Digital Music

Online shopping for Amazon Music HD FAQs from a great selection at Digital Music Store.

www.amazon.co.uk

The problem is you can't tell - the Amazon Music app doesn't provide resolution info when casting and the best the Alexa app can do is show a UHD badge but that could be just 24/48 for all I know...

Witterings · Jan 24, 2023

Brantome said:
where did your 95% confidence come from? In fact, I'm sure there's a Wired article which says that the Studio, while supporting UHD, caps it at 24/48 -

There was a page I found but this is going back to before March last year when I bought the Mini's and it listed what each device's resolution was. I've been searching through for it but can't find it which makes me wonder if it's the link I posted above in post #548 and I may have assumed as they'd put it on there it wasn't capped but would play at the highest resolution available.

Brantome · Jan 24, 2023

Witterings said:
There was a page I found but this is going back to before March last year when I bought the Mini's and it listed what each device's resolution was. I've been searching through for it but can't find it which makes me wonder if it's the link I posted above in post #548 and I may have assumed as they'd put it on there it wasn't capped but would play at the highest resolution available.

Never come across anything that specific - just the echo device HD/UHD comments I made above. Was it an Amazon help page, forum response or somewhere else?

EDIT: just reread your comment - if it was that UK help page, then maybe your read of it was optimistic. There used to be a .com equivalent of that page which I can't even find cached on the wayback machine (I might not have the right url) but it was a wee bit more specific in that it did say UHD (of unspecified resolution) was supported on the Studio, Link and Link Amp but again that might have only been with USA not UK firmware.

For info - here's the Wired article on the Studio (https://www.wired.co.uk/article/amazon-echo-studio-review) when it came out. Note the sentence "And the story is also shadowy where digital-to-analogue conversion is concerned - the Echo Studio is fitted with a 24bit DAC, which is enough to put high-resolution audio on the menu. But though the company hints at it being a 192kHz device, anything above 24bit/48kHz coming into the Studio is downscaled." As I say, how they ascertained that I don't know unless they had a network sniffer or similar, but it does lend weight to the theory that Amazon really don't want you to know that even their top of the range Echo or Show don't actually support more than 24/48, grouped or not

liivy · Jan 28, 2023

Brantome said:
I’d use your phone to play Youtube Music and Chromecast to the Pro (although you’d need Youtube Music Premium) and use the audible app and bluetooth from your phone. YouTube Music support is on the roadmap though.

Thanks! But didn't Wiim ads promise direct support for these apps?

Brantome · Jan 28, 2023

liivy said:
Thanks! But didn't Wiim ads promise direct support for these apps?

Not that I recall although as I say, Youtube Music is on their roadmap. I’d be surprised if Audible was even mentioned as it’s not a music or streaming service.

Brantome · Jan 28, 2023

Brantome said:
Not that I recall although as I say, Youtube Music is on their roadmap. I’d be surprised if Audible was even mentioned as it’s not a music or streaming service.

Having said that, I tried to use the alexa app to select and play an audible book to my WiiM Pro and while it did start playing and displaying the image in the Wiim app, it paused at the end of the very brief introductory chapter and wouldn’t go any further. So unless WiiM actively look to support Audible (it might be worth asking), I fall back on my earlier Bluetooth suggestion.

Pcryan5 · Jan 28, 2023

Brantome said:
Having said that, I tried to use the alexa app to select and play an audible book to my WiiM Pro and while it did start playing and displaying the image in the Wiim app, it paused at the end of the very brief introductory chapter and wouldn’t go any further. So unless WiiM actively look to support Audible (it might be worth asking), I fall back on my earlier Bluetooth suggestion.

I wonder if it treats chapters like songs and you need to (oddly) press play for the next one?

Brantome · Jan 28, 2023

Pcryan5 said:
I wonder if it treats chapters like songs and you need to (oddly) press play for the next one?

I meant dead stop - play button ineffective, ffwd/rew greyed out…

Pcryan5 · Jan 28, 2023

Brantome said:
I meant dead stop - play button ineffective, ffwd/rew greyed out…

YIKES - culture killed the pod!

Deleted member 925 · Feb 13, 2023

WiiM Support said:
Hi Team,

Let me talk to our eng team for your issues. I have a very good confidence that this has been supported in the WiiM Pro. Please stay tuned!

Is there an update on this? Very curious which Echo devices we can group with to get full bitrate hi-res multiroom. Thanks!

Brantome · Feb 14, 2023

elmoe said:
Is there an update on this? Very curious which Echo devices we can group with to get full bitrate hi-res multiroom. Thanks!

As stated previously on the Amazon website, most echos only support HD, with the Studio, Echo Link & Echo Link Amp supporting UHD. However, as above, my experience with the Studio is that it maxes out at 24/48 which is barely dipping a toe into UHD. I had hoped my newer Show 15 might have been able to better that, but no. @WiiM Team did say they’d check up on it so an update would be good.

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