Snake oil update! 🐍

[onlyoneme]

The WiiM Mini’s digital output jitter. Remember, if the noise at the bottom is greater than 115dB below the peak in the middle, it’s impossible to hear.

View attachment 6024

It does not reflect the digital output jitter of the Mini.

 

[canard]

It does not reflect the digital output jitter of the Mini.

;-)

 

[Smartplug]

So having a purifier made sound good? The only thing that got purified was your wallet.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

So having a purifier made sound good? The only thing that got purified was your wallet.

thanks for your concern, my wallet's feeling extremely pure in my pocket atm!

there's a 60-day free return policy where i bought it from, so there's no need to get your panties in a bunch about my money...

i'd rather test things out, see how they work in my system and then decide whether the expenditure is worth it, rather than just assume i know everything

 

[Smartplug]

thanks for your concern, my wallet's feeling extremely pure in my pocket atm!

there's a 60-day free return policy where i bought it from, so there's no need to get your panties in a bunch about my money...

i'd rather test things out, see how they work in my system and then decide whether the expenditure is worth it, rather than just assume i know everything

If you feel there was an improvement, I would keep it and don’t let other people discourage you on what they say. You know better than them.

 

[Mike in NY]

You mean every time someone posts something you agree with, you don’t want to hear contrary arguments?

No thats not what I meant at all, your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.
You've once again chosen to disregard the thread title's tongue in cheek aspect, and ignore the OP's stated disclaimer, while parroting your measurements or bust lecture/dogma. As I said, that goes over quite well on the groupthink site, elsewhere not so much.

 

[Mike in NY]

Not seeing an expert anywhere!

Good point, I should have said:

 

[harkpabst]

... we just want to share our experiences so that these anecdotes can help us form a better understanding of what's going on.

The problem lies within the anecdotical approach.

I don't see nothing wrong with trying out stuff that "shouldn't make a difference, in theory". That's all fine.

It's the process of verification/falsification that's lacking. Posting "I did this and it sounded better" (usually, but not necessarily involving some pecuniary investment) will always trigger others to agree (especially when money has been spent). Still, the likelihood of you really talking about the same thing is small, to say the least, since all boundary conditions are different.

Of course, the it will also trigger the opposite camp, for understandable reasons.

If the results could be evaluated in double blind ABX tests, this could lay a foundation for a truely better understanding. Since this is not happening in Internet forums, the only meaning is for the one individual who should certainly pick whatever sounds better to him.

Just because somebody else agrees on the Internet means absolutely nothing.

 

[steadyshot]

The problem lies within the anecdotical approach.

I don't see nothing wrong with trying out stuff that "shouldn't make a difference, in theory". That's all fine.

It's the process of verification/falsification that's lacking. Posting "I did this and it sounded better" (usually, but not necessarily involving some pecuniary investment) will always trigger others to agree (especially when money has been spent). Still, the likelihood of you really talking about the same thing is small, to say the least, since all boundary conditions are different.

Of course, the it will also trigger the opposite camp, for understandable reasons.

If the results could be evaluated in double blind ABX tests, this could lay a foundation for a truely better understanding. Since this is not happening in Internet forums, the only meaning is for the one individual who should certainly pick whatever sounds better to him.

Just because somebody else agrees on the Internet means absolutely nothing.

The underlying claim almost affects every manufacturer in the industry and does not agree with the experience of people. Moreover there are no blind tests that prove there is no difference and you invoke blind tests all the time you and others with the same attitude like it is the gospel . Where are the comprehensive blind tests?

Don’t interfere and keep your opinions to yourself.

There are people so obsessed to prove that audiophiles are stupid and easily misled but what does this hide ? Maybe some form of complex or coping mechanism ? A messiah in disguise ? What ?

 

[Fender]

Everything what makes me feel good has a direct impact on my personal subjective "sound quality". And that is all what matters for me. What others think, with all respect, doesn't matter for me in this hobby. Highly appreciate the jobs done by many smarter people than me doing very important basic research and I am cheeky enough to harvest and buy the fruits they've made possible. As long as I am not able (and this will most likely never change) to design and build things in audio by myself I will need others. Trust in engineering and yes, also in brands I know from my very own and long experience. Life is much easier with one or another cornerstone ;-)
My all-time answer to "Why did you choose that?" is and will remain "Because I like it, want it and can afford it."
But every other different approach can claim of course its eligibility.

 

[Brantome]

Don’t interfere and keep your opinions to yourself.

Please bear in mind the group rules and my comment #50 above.

Can I repeat to everyone in this thread - let's all cool our jets and desist from making pointed and unfriendly comments like above. Any further comments of this ilk will be deleted without comment.

If a particular member's opinion constantly irritates you, then it's within your power to ignore them and their future comments by simply clicking on their name and choosing "ignore"...

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Peace to everyone.

Please take a step back, because I think people are getting upset about things which are inevitable.

Even if we didn’t have any objectivist/subjectivist split, is someone claimed a particular DAC sound better, there’d be people disagreeing.

There are two sides to this. So side one, objectivists will argue if someone makes a claim which appears to be contrary to the known science. Side two is that, if someone feels they hear a difference which is contrary to what objectivists note should be inaudible, that they’re not being believed.

I personally have no issue either way. If someone claims something that should be impossible, they should expect that to be (politely) challenged. On the other hand, if someone says something shouldn’t be audible, they should expect that someone else might pop up and claim they can hear a difference.

None of that bothers or upsets me.

You make claim, either way, expect to be challenged on that. I mean, this is a public hi-fi forum.

Some people seem to think they can post saying they can hear a difference if they wear yellow underwear, and gave the right from anyone banned from saying “Now hang on…”.

I certainly don’t expect anyone to be banned from challenging that. And I don’t expect anyone to be banned from stating they can hear something if they feel they do.

Can we not head to a status where anyone can say whatever they want, and no one is allowed to disagree.

 

[hoohoohoo]

@bowsandarrows - awesome thread! Still laughing. Looking forward to your next snake oil update!

 

[Wiimer]

When I'm very tired, I remember this song and listen to it quietly.

Decades ago, when I first heard this song on an FM station, I remember tears welling up in my eyes for some reason. At that time, I was just happy to listen to music, and I didn't care about the sound quality.

Actually, I didn't even know the word "sound quality".

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Wait no longer for a snake oil update - on its first anniversary, too!

 

[canard]

When I'm very tired, I remember this song and listen to it quietly.

Decades ago, when I first heard this song on an FM station, I remember tears welling up in my eyes for some reason. At that time, I was just happy to listen to music, and I didn't care about the sound quality.

Actually, I didn't even know the word "sound quality".

It is fairly admitted that this type of "pleasure" is inversely proportional to the amount of energy invested in "hifi"..

 

[Brantome]

Guys, this is veering far away from the thrust of this thread which was subjective views of changes being made to someone's system.

I've noted that whenever we get too deeply involved in discussions which as I've said before are best fought on the battlefields of ASR, that the usual bonhomie and friendly discourse we can have on this forum takes a nosedive. Even on ASR where you'd think there'd be a general agreement on such matters, there's a thread on how can DACs have a different sound signature if they measure as transparent that runs to 416 (yes, 416) pages. I'd rather discussions like that stayed there and that I don't have to suspend another thread here because of ill feelings engendered by such debates.

Thanks

​

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I totally agree. But as long as that’s evenly applied to both sides.

If someone asks “Will a different/more expensive DAC/streamer sound better!” are we really expected to follow a convention where people who believe it will can say so, but people who believe it can’t aren’t allowed to say so?

 

[Matterhorn]

I totally agree. But as long as that’s evenly applied to both sides.

If someone asks “Will a different/more expensive DAC/streamer sound better!” are we really expected to follow a convention where people who believe it will can say so, but people who believe it can’t aren’t allowed to say so?

The point is to let people have their own ideas to exchange with each other. When someone comes along and starts preaching their opinions as gospel it comes across in a condescending way. That has the effect of putting people off leading to angry posts. I assume that you've seen threads closed down. This is not normal.

 

[Fender]

A good cook knows when a meal couldn't be warmed again and again.