Roadmap: "Cast to Sonos and other 3rd DLNA devices"

[Almakirály]

Hey, I just want to emphasize to Wiim's developers how much I, and probably others here, look forward to this great and important feature. Like many early adopter types, I have several Raspberry Pi-s lying around the house as DLNA/UPnP renderers from pre-Wiim days. I would love to be able to bring them into the Wiim orbit and control all my gear from the wonderful Wiim app. Which, by the way, now works from all my Apple gear, including the M1 Pro laptop! This would definitely help solidify the Wiim ecosystem as the go-to solution and encourage folks to purchase more Wiim hardware going forward. Can't wait! Do chime in fellow travellers!

 

[viktor]

I have Gigabyte brix mini pc loaded with Libreelec Kodi OS (linux based), everytime when i power on or reboot Libreelec in Wiim app for couple of second app recognize as Linkplay device,it will be interesting if start to work as renderer

 

[Almakirály]

I have Gigabyte brix mini pc loaded with Libreelec Kodi OS (linux based), everytime when i power on or reboot Libreelec in Wiim app for couple of second app recognize as Linkplay device,it will be interesting if start to work as renderer

That does sound quite promising. Hopefully soon...

 

[simbun]

Hey, I just want to emphasize to Wiim's developers how much I, and probably others here, look forward to this great and important feature. Like many early adopter types, I have several Raspberry Pi-s lying around the house as DLNA/UPnP renderers from pre-Wiim days. I would love to be able to bring them into the Wiim orbit and control all my gear from the wonderful Wiim app. Which, by the way, now works from all my Apple gear, including the M1 Pro laptop! This would definitely help solidify the Wiim ecosystem as the go-to solution and encourage folks to purchase more Wiim hardware going forward. Can't wait! Do chime in fellow travellers!

Given that you can already control all DLNA/UPnP renderers from existing control points that are far more accomplished than the WiiM Home app, why is this important to you - unless of course it's because you also use Spotify/Tidal/Qobuz and just want a single interface to control everything.
I don't believe WiiM uses DLNA/UPnP when it's playing to its own devices, so I'm pretty sure that other UPnP renderers won't be able to join in synchronised playback - although that would be epic.

 

[Brantome]

I don't believe WiiM uses DLNA/UPnP when it's playing to its own devices, so I'm pretty sure that other UPnP renderers won't be able to join in synchronised playback - although that would be epic.

One potential way, if I understand what is being asked, could be to use LMS and its upnpbridge and group players plugins to play to multiple upnp endpoints, including WiiM and other devices. To test that I have just grouped my WiiM Mini, WiiM Pro, Linn MDSM/4 and my Samsung Frame TV (it appeared as a upnp renderer in LMS which I have running on an old Raspberry PI 3 that I had languishing a drawer) and played tracks via LMS from my NAS, Qobuz and hi res internet radio in turn to all at once - I can’t vouch for how “synchronised” they were, but they were all playing at the same time and at the resolution expected. I’d expect LMS to be better behaved re sort order, multiple disc sets etc too - no doubt @d6jg will keep us right on that.

 

[d6jg]

One potential way, if I understand what is being asked, could be to use LMS and its upnpbridge and group players plugins to play to multiple upnp endpoints, including WiiM and other devices. To test that I have just grouped my WiiM Mini, WiiM Pro, Linn MDSM/4 and my Samsung Frame TV (it appeared as a upnp renderer in LMS which I have running on an old Raspberry PI 3 that I had languishing a drawer) and played tracks via LMS from my NAS, Qobuz and hi res internet radio in turn to all at once - I can’t vouch for how “synchronised” they were, but they were all playing at the same time and at the resolution expected. I’d expect LMS to be better behaved re sort order, multiple disc sets etc too - no doubt @d6jg will keep us right on that.

Yep. LMS (especially with Material) handles multi disc sets beautifully as long as your tagging is correct.

Cream. Those Were The Days (Box Set)

 

[d6jg]

On LMS sync.
Because everything is run from the server (rather than a controller sending info to the renderer) sync is pretty much perfect when used with a native LMS endpoint or when using the UPnP/DLNA Bridge or Airplay Bridge (but not with Chromecast bridge).
The caveat is that a sync group will downsample to the lowest common level.
If your LMS sync group contains an Airplay device that means 16/44.1.

NB.
Using a WiiM with UPnP/DLNA Bridge is still not perfect but it’s not bad.
Native LMS endpoints remain a lot better.
The DAC32/DIGI32 players are still better if your 2.4Ghz WiFi is up to it.

 

[simbun]

One potential way, if I understand what is being asked, could be to use LMS and its upnpbridge and group players plugins to play to multiple upnp endpoints, including WiiM and other devices.

I think it's a stretch for the squeezelite client integration let alone LMS server components including the UPnPBridge!
The first post on the UPnPBridge thread states:

It should provide pretty much all the features of squeezelite, except synchronization that does not and will never work (all you can have is a 2-sec accurate sync start)

So unless that's changed it wouldn't be of any use anyway.

I think all WiiM can hope for is to be able to cast to other DLNA renderers, but as we know there's so much incompatibilty that even that is not a trivial task.

 

[d6jg]

I think it's a stretch for the squeezelite client integration let alone LMS server components including the UPnPBridge!
The first post on the UPnPBridge thread states:

So unless that's changed it wouldn't be of any use anyway.

I think all WiiM can hope for is to be able to cast to other DLNA renderers, but as we know there's so much incompatibilty that it's not a trivial task.

I stand corrected. Each of the bridge plugins has some compromise or other and I’d forgotten which has which.
It’s only the Airplay bridge that will sync.
Airplay (1) remains at a max of 16/48 which in practice generally means 16/44.1.
Chromecast is 24/96 max (with HDMI or optical on CCA) and won’t sync.
UPnP is the fiddliest by far but will do 24/192 if the hardware supports it.

However my comment on multi disc handling is 100% correct. It’s spot on.

A Squeezelite client will sync with another native LMS endpoint without issue

 

[simbun]

Ah, I thought @Brantome was suggesting that WiiM would somehow be able to use the UPnPBridge within the WiiM Home app to control other UPnP renderers, as that's what was specifically being asked for:

Like many early adopter types, I have several Raspberry Pi-s lying around the house as DLNA/UPnP renderers from pre-Wiim days. I would love to be able to bring them into the Wiim orbit and control all my gear from the wonderful Wiim app.

Given that the app isn't even working for the top UPnP servers, I have major doubts they'll be able to make it work for all the DLNA renderers out there; just think of all the TVs, game consoles, software renderers, e.t.c.

 

[Brantome]

Ah well, it was just a thought…

 

[d6jg]

Hey, I just want to emphasize to Wiim's developers how much I, and probably others here, look forward to this great and important feature. Like many early adopter types, I have several Raspberry Pi-s lying around the house as DLNA/UPnP renderers from pre-Wiim days. I would love to be able to bring them into the Wiim orbit and control all my gear from the wonderful Wiim app. Which, by the way, now works from all my Apple gear, including the M1 Pro laptop! This would definitely help solidify the Wiim ecosystem as the go-to solution and encourage folks to purchase more Wiim hardware going forward. Can't wait! Do chime in fellow travellers!

If you want to do multi room sync and control via ONE app then you should look at LMS and convert your Raspberry Pi's to piCorePlayer devices.

Material (the control interface plugin) runs as a html5 app on any phone, tablet etc and has everything in one place.

LMS has plugins for all of the services offered by WiiM app with the exception of Apple and Amazon but a load more radio options much better Radio Paradise (FLAC) and BBC Sounds support and lots of other things.

Convert one of your Pi's with piCorePlayer and add LMS to make it a player/server, convert the others to be players, add the UPnP/DLNA Bridge plugin to convert your WiiM to become an LMS player (but with no sync). The Pi server device can have local music either on an attached USB drive or if you have a NAS by mounting that as file store.

Install Material in app mode on your iOS devices and optionally add iPeng with player add on to make your iOS devices into mobile LMS players.

Add the LMS Music & Artist Info plugin to get Reviews, Bios and Lyrics

Once you have seen and used Material you will realise that the WiiM app is vastly inferior in many ways. (I only ever used it to set up my Mini in the first instance.)

If you have Pi's lying around you have nothing to lose (except a bit of time) by trying it.

 

[Brantome]

If you want to do multi room sync and control via ONE app then you should look at LMS and convert your Raspberry Pi's to piCorePlayer devices.

Material (the control interface plugin) runs as a html5 app on any phone, tablet etc and has everything in one place.

LMS has plugins for all of the services offered by WiiM app with the exception of Apple and Amazon but a load more radio options much better Radio Paradise (FLAC) and BBC Sounds support and lots of other things.

Convert one of your Pi's with piCorePlayer and add LMS to make it a player/server, convert the others to be players, add the UPnP/DLNA Bridge plugin to convert your WiiM to become an LMS player (but with no sync). The Pi server device can have local music either on an attached USB drive or if you have a NAS by mounting that as file store.

Install Material in app mode on your iOS devices and optionally add iPeng with player add on to make your iOS devices into mobile LMS players.

Add the LMS Music & Artist Info plugin to get Reviews, Bios and Lyrics

Once you have seen and used Material you will realise that the WiiM app is vastly inferior in many ways. (I only ever used it to set up my Mini in the first instance.)

If you have Pi's lying around you have nothing to lose (except a bit of time) by trying it.

I thought that was what I was suggesting, just perhaps not as fully or eloquently

And while it might have not been synchronized (which I didn’t pay much attention to as I was just switching between the players I mention as they are all connected to the same amp/speakers), unless the target speakers are within hearing distance of each other, maybe spot on sync isn’t a necessity.

 

[Almakirály]

If you want to do multi room sync and control via ONE app then you should look at LMS and convert your Raspberry Pi's to piCorePlayer devices.

Material (the control interface plugin) runs as a html5 app on any phone, tablet etc and has everything in one place.

LMS has plugins for all of the services offered by WiiM app with the exception of Apple and Amazon but a load more radio options much better Radio Paradise (FLAC) and BBC Sounds support and lots of other things.

Convert one of your Pi's with piCorePlayer and add LMS to make it a player/server, convert the others to be players, add the UPnP/DLNA Bridge plugin to convert your WiiM to become an LMS player (but with no sync). The Pi server device can have local music either on an attached USB drive or if you have a NAS by mounting that as file store.

Install Material in app mode on your iOS devices and optionally add iPeng with player add on to make your iOS devices into mobile LMS players.

Add the LMS Music & Artist Info plugin to get Reviews, Bios and Lyrics

Once you have seen and used Material you will realise that the WiiM app is vastly inferior in many ways. (I only ever used it to set up my Mini in the first instance.)

If you have Pi's lying around you have nothing to lose (except a bit of time) by trying it.

Thanks for the suggestion and steps. True, of all the solutions out there, LMS/piCorePlayer is the one I haven't tried yet and will do. It does however look like a lot of new effort when at this time the only puzzle piece I'm missing is Wiim's DLNA support. I exclusively use Tidal for its hi-fi, hi-rez streaming, and after having pursued for years unsuccessfully to somehow get Tidal-connect on all my renderers the Wiim app with DLNA casting is actually what for me would come closest. Its Tidal implementation in my view is great and the app offers nearly as good an experience as Tidal's own app.
Stuff I tried: Tidal app - great but requires renderers to offer Tidal-Connect; Volumio (only Pi/PC software that offers Tidal-Connect and as premium), clunky and mostly I'm not willing to indefinitely rent this kind of software; mConnect - offers Tidal and casts DLNA but clunky and unreliable as hell...

 

[Almakirály]

Given that you can already control all DLNA/UPnP renderers from existing control points that are far more accomplished than the WiiM Home app, why is this important to you - unless of course it's because you also use Spotify/Tidal/Qobuz and just want a single interface to control everything.
I don't believe WiiM uses DLNA/UPnP when it's playing to its own devices, so I'm pretty sure that other UPnP renderers won't be able to join in synchronised playback - although that would be epic.

You're right, it is because I'm using Tidal exclusively and just want a single interface that is both functionally and esthetically pleasing, and is rock solid and continually improved. Not sure either if Wiim uses DLNA when playing to its own devices but if they implement it for 3rd party as they're saying, I'd be very happy.

 

[d6jg]

Thanks for the suggestion and steps. True, of all the solutions out there, LMS/piCorePlayer is the one I haven't tried yet and will do. It does however look like a lot of new effort when at this time the only puzzle piece I'm missing is Wiim's DLNA support. I exclusively use Tidal for its hi-fi, hi-rez streaming, and after having pursued for years unsuccessfully to somehow get Tidal-connect on all my renderers (Tidal app - great but requires renderers to offer Tidal-Connect; Volumio - offers Tidal-Connect as premium, but clunky and mostly I'm not willing to indefinitely rent this kind of software; mConnect - offers Tidal and casts DLNA but clunky and unreliable as hell...) the Wiim app with DLNA casting is actually what for me would come closest. Its Tidal implementation in my view is great and the app offers nearly as good an experience as Tidal's own app.

Tidal, Qobuz, Deezer & Spotify are all integrated (by plugin) into LMS so are all controlled from one app along with any locally stored music, Internet Radio, Radio Paradise, BBC Sounds etc.