Rca or coaxial

[steadyshot]

I was using the cables that came with the pro plus, and the wiim amp, which look the same, but of course might not be.

Given you have speakers that cost nearly $3000 and the best speakers I own are in the $1500 range, and the cheapest closer to $600, that you are picking up something I can't

He is not picking anything . Less noise is transferred through the cables to the amp ,less signal degradation .

Fine is a pretty condescending word and it does not mean anything in the context of high fidelity without comparison .

 

[cooky560]

I said "picking up" suggesting that he can hear something I can't, nothing negative inferred

Can anyone smarter than me do some tests on the wiim analog cables?

 

[harkpabst]

Less noise is transferred through the cables to the amp ,less signal degradation .

Are you suggesting that better cables will actively reduce noise?

Can that signal degredation (a mechanism different from the factor "less noise", I assume) be measured?

 

[steadyshot]

Are you suggesting that better cables will actively reduce noise?

Can that signal degredation (a mechanism different from the factor "less noise", I assume) be measured?

Yes that is the point of better cables, to transfer cleaner and fuller signal.

 

[cooky560]

My apologies I'm not a believer in the difference between cables, copper is copper. Although I'm willing to be proven wrong.

Remember that at various points in the chain, inside your equipment, at the recording studio mixing desk and connected hardware, speaker crossover etc, the signal travels through miles and miles of the cheapest material possible, usually tin, or thin copper, and of course the small wire tracks on pcbs in modern equipment, including dacs and cd players. So I find it hard to believe that interconnects make a massive difference, given that there's so many other places inferior cabling could cause damage, before the sound makes it to your interconnects.

But as I said this is my limited understanding, I'm not a hardware designer, or a studio engineer, I'm willing to be proven wrong.

 

[steadyshot]

My apologies I'm not a believer in the difference between cables, copper is copper. Although I'm willing to be proven wrong.

Remember that at various points in the chain, inside your equipment, at the recording studio mixing desk and connected hardware, speaker crossover etc, the signal travels through miles and miles of the cheapest material possible, usually tin, or thin copper, and of course the small wire tracks on pcbs in modern equipment, including dacs and cd players. So I find it hard to believe that interconnects make a massive difference, given that there's so many other places inferior cabling could cause damage, before the sound makes it to your interconnects.

But as I said this is my limited understanding, I'm not a hardware designer, or a studio engineer, I'm willing to be proven wrong.

Do you base your opinion on “copper is copper”?

 

[cooky560]

Do you base your opinion on “copper is copper”?

I believe no matter what interconnects I use, it doesn't matter because any degradation in the signal due to material choices has already occured at one or more of the following stages:

1 - The reams of cheap tin wiring inside the mixing console at the recording studio
2 - The reams of cheap wiring inside home audio components, such as amps and speakers
3 - In modern times, the thin traces on PCBs used to deliver the audio from the source to the power stage / power IC
4 - The basic copper / tin wiring used inside the speaker's internal wiring

In short, it doesn't matter how perfectly clear your cable is, as it's being fed something that's already been affected by cable degradation at various points throughout the process starting in recording, and ending at your speakers.

Several super cheap cables are not copper, but a blend of different things, I can believe this makes a difference.

There are probably other stages I've missed as I said I'm not an expert, just a lay person who enjoys nice quality music on a good hifi.

 

[Matterhorn]

I think people have different thresholds for mods that change sound. Let's let people believe what they believe and leave it. There are audiophile forums out there that are practically at war over these ideas. As for analog cables, they can definitely sound very different.

 

[steadyshot]

I believe no matter what interconnects I use, it doesn't matter because any degradation in the signal due to material choices has already occured at one or more of the following stages:

1 - The reams of cheap tin wiring inside the mixing console at the recording studio
2 - The reams of cheap wiring inside home audio components, such as amps and speakers
3 - In modern times, the thin traces on PCBs used to deliver the audio from the source to the power stage / power IC
4 - The basic copper / tin wiring used inside the speaker's internal wiring

There are probably other stages I've missed as I said I'm not an expert, just a lay person who enjoys nice quality music on a good hifi.

Degradation continues until the signal reaches the point to excite the speaker cones . So anything up until that point affects the signal…and then driver distortion is added.

 

[Fender]

I believe no matter what interconnects I use, it doesn't matter because any degradation in the signal due to material choices has already occured at one or more of the following stages:

1 - The reams of cheap tin wiring inside the mixing console at the recording studio
2 - The reams of cheap wiring inside home audio components, such as amps and speakers
3 - In modern times, the thin traces on PCBs used to deliver the audio from the source to the power stage / power IC
4 - The basic copper / tin wiring used inside the speaker's internal wiring

In short, it doesn't matter how perfectly clear your cable is, as it's being fed something that's already been affected by cable degradation at various points throughout the process starting in recording, and ending at your speakers.

Several super cheap cables are not copper, but a blend of different things, I can believe this makes a difference.

There are probably other stages I've missed as I said I'm not an expert, just a lay person who enjoys nice quality music on a good hifi.

2. - 4. can easily be avoided by finding and buying stuff which many people call overpriced ;-) Devil sits in detail.

 

[cooky560]

Degradation continues until the signal reaches the point to excite the speaker cones . So anything up until that point affects the signal…and then driver distortion is added.

Perhaps I'm wrong here, but degradation continues to the point the specific cable is able to bear. So following all of the points of failure in my stages, and indeed as you mentioned after the sound has gone through drivers. It's almost certain a cable that's pure copper all the way through cannot introduce massive further degredation.

If signal degradation was such a massive issue, every stage from recording to playback would use the same gauge and quality of the most expensive speaker wire, and looking at both cheap and expensive amplifier designs, this simply doesn't happen.

 

[onlyoneme]

Quick experiment - the WiiM Pro powered by an isolated PSU, connected to my isolated ADC via the stock RCA cable. Two use cases, one as above, and second one with an additional power mains cable closely tied to the RCA cable on a 30 cm section, and loaded with a hair dryer.

WiiM idle:



WiiM playing silence signal:



WiiM playing a full scale sine 1 kHz signal:



I will leave it without a comment

 

[cooky560]

Ok that's a pretty bad result, thank you for doing that test!

 

[harkpabst]

Ok that's a pretty bad result, thank you for doing that test!

Where's the bad result?

All I see is a noticeable 50 Hz spike where the WiiM Pro is idling (with some barely visible odd harmonics). All this is gone and covered by the noise floor even when the WiiM is playing silence. Pretty much no noticeable difference playing 1 kHz FS.

 

[cooky560]

The 1khz spike has stuff in it that’s clearly not 1khz

 

[onlyoneme]

The 1khz spike has stuff in it that’s clearly not 1khz

Which is characteristic to the WiiM Pro itself.

 

[harkpabst]

One would need a cable actively removing distortion to get rid of that.

 

[onlyoneme]

Where's the bad result?

All I see is a noticeable 50 Hz spike where the WiiM Pro is idling (with some barely visible odd harmonics). All this is gone and covered by the noise floor even when the WiiM is playing silence. Pretty much no noticeable difference playing 1 kHz FS.

Tomorrow a variation will come - non isolated design with the forced ground loop.

 

[cooky560]

So basically I’m right the cable is fine?
I’m not expert at those graphs

 

[onlyoneme]

In the scenario above? Yes, it's fine.