Wiim Mini Streamer/Alexa Multi-room Music Issue

[richaardvark]

Hello!

I have the original / version 1 I believe of the Wiim Mini/streamer. It has the latest firmware and is successfully set up with my Amazon account. Under the Alexa settings I have the uhd/hd turned off. I'm not using a physical hard-wired speaker with my Wiim device, only Bluetooth. The Bluetooth speaker is connected and works fine. The device appears as an Alexa device in my Alexa app and in the Amazon Music app and I have no trouble whatsoever playing music on the individual device itself. However, multi-room music is not working. I've deleted the multi-room group and added it back and it is just silent out of the Wiim device.

I've changed network settings to disable the preferred DNS since I don't use 8.8.8.8 and I turned off IPv6 since I don't use that either. I've rebooted multiple times. I've lowered the audio quality to the lowest possible setting. I've tried making new test multi-room music groups with only the Wiim device and one other Echo device and it says it's playing when in multi-room music mode but there's no sound coming out of the Wiim device, only the Amazon Echo device.

It's also worth noting that the volume control and equalizer features do not seem to have any effect on the music playing on the speaker connected to my wiim device.

Additionally, It's also worth noting that for some reason my Wiim device is not showing up at all in my list of devices connected to my router in my TP-LINK Deco M5 mesh router app. I've searched for the MAC address and also the IP address and I've gone through each of the four mesh satellite nodes one by one and look through all devices but somehow it's not showing up as a device at all but it is indeed connected to the mesh network.

If anyone could offer some insight here I would be really appreciative!

Thank you!

 

[Brantome]

Bluetooth connected speakers are not supported for Alexa MRM music by Amazon.

When Amazon first introduced MRM, it wasn’t possible to connect Bluetooth speakers to members of the MRM group - some opined this was because MRM used Bluetooth to sync speakers but that’s untrue as MRM is entirely wifi. A while later it did allow Bluetooth speakers connected to echos but since then support was deprecated and the relevant amazon help pages removed. However, I’ve found that it did sometimes work when using earlier Amazon echo models (e.g. my gen 3 dot worked but none of my echo shows did) and indeed the alexa app may still have troubleshooting steps for syncing such even though it’s no longer a supported feature.

As WiiM devices use the Amazon MRM stack to support Amazon Music and other Alexa features, it’s therefore likely they inherited the inability to support Bluetooth connected speakers in an Alexa MRM.

Many bluetooth speakers do have an aux input and I suggest you use that to connect to a WiiM device when it’s part of an Alexa MRM group.

Also, EQ isn’t supported over Bluetooth output.

 

[richaardvark]

Thank you for your response!

Bluetooth connected speakers are not supported for Alexa MRM music by Amazon.

This is not true, or entirely true. I am familiar with the history that you have described with regard to Bluetooth functionality for Alexa MRM and how it was added later and whatnot but Echo/Alexa devices absolutely absolutely support Bluetooth speakers with multi room music. If they didn't, then why would there be an entire Alexa app settings area for multi-room music latency adjustment for Bluetooth devices? It solely exists for adjusting latency with regard to MRM for Bluetooth devices.

Additionally the latest versions of the Echo Dot do not feature a physical auxiliary output port as I'm sure you are aware. While the built-in speakers in these devices themselves have improved with each iteration it has to be expected that many users will not utilize the built-in speaker but solely purchase these devices to use with their existing stereo systems and other portable Bluetooth speakers, etc. Now that there is no physical auxiliary output port Amazon is more or less requiring that users use Bluetooth audio as their primary output source and therefore is also true with regard to MRM, being one of the main features/functionalities when it comes to playing music on Amazon Echo/Alexa devices.

I currently have nine Alexa/Echo devices in my home and five of them are permanently connected to Bluetooth speakers and they work flawlessly with MRM. It is absolutely a supported feature.

I understand that there's not consistency from Amazon on this topic and I have indeed spoken with support associates at Amazon who have stated what you are stating. However, I've overwhelmingly heard the opposite, that MRM with Bluetooth speakers is indeed supported. There would not exist an entire Bluetooth latency settings section under MRM groups if this feature was not supported. The Alexa app doesn't even let you adjust Bluetooth latency for individual connected Bluetooth devices without first playing something on the multi-room music group.

Bluetooth audio from Alexa/Echo devices not only works with multi-room music groups but also with device/speaker groups and the default speaker setting. As I'm sure you are also familiar this function is slightly different from standard MRM but subsequently does create a MRM group on the back end even though it doesn't appear to the user that this exists as an MRM group.

Bluetooth functionality is also supported on Echo/Alexa devices across MRM groups when the audio source is the auxiliary input/line-in distribution from an Echo Link device. I use this function daily and have for several years.

Also, EQ isn’t supported over Bluetooth output.

This is true, though it was for the longest time until about a year ago. Adjusting the treble/mid-range/bass settings on individual Echo Dots indeed used to be reflected in the audio playing from the device's connected Bluetooth speaker but this stopped working about a year ago and is no longer officially supported.

With regard to whether or not something exists or is properly updated in the Amazon help and documentation... well, while one might think this should indeed be a reflection of whether or not a feature is officially supported the help and documentation still says that I can use "Alexa built-in" devices and even links me to the sales page for the certain models of phones that have the special Qualcomm chip which enables the wake word to be detected when the screen is turned off even though this feature was dropped over a year and a half ago. I have found going by what is stated in the official Alexa/Echo help and documentation to be neither an up-to-date nor an accurate reflection of what is truly officially supported on numerous occasions.

 

[Brantome]

Which echo devices are you using that support this? As I say my experience is that my older echo dots did while my Shows didn’t.

 

[Brantome]

Re EQ, I was referring to the WiiM device..

 

[richaardvark]

Which echo devices are you using that support this? As I say my experience is that my older echo dots did while my Shows didn’t.

I have mostly all 2nd-generation Echo Dots, two Echo Flexes, one 4-generation (I think? ...the first spherical one that still has an AUX out port), and one Echo Link (without the built-in amp).

 

[richaardvark]

Re EQ, I was referring to the WiiM device..

The EQ no longer works for Bluetooth devices connected to actual Echo devices from Amazon either.

 

[Woody]

Here's something to think about... you mention you have nine Echo devices. If they are all in your MRM group and you're adding the WiiM as number ten, you might have reached to MRM music device limit of nine.
Not sure why it would behave the way your setup is, but for me when I try to add more MRM devices, I receive a network error. Must be something to do with the way the MRM system works with redistribution of data. I have confirmed that nine is the limit from some Amazon articles.
(oh, stereo pairs and sub count as 3 devices)

Bluetooth speakers in my MRM setup were always problematic, so I just switched to hardwired powered speaker or use the Echo as a source for normal amp/speaker setup.

My WiiM Amp is a device in my MRM setup and is working great.
If you haven't done so, try removing one current device and see if MRM works. For the heck of it, remove the Bluetooth speakers for a test.

 

[Brantome]

I have mostly all 2nd-generation Echo Dots, two Echo Flexes, one 4-generation (I think? ...the first spherical one that still has an AUX out port), and one Echo Link (without the built-in amp)

Thanks, that fits in with my experience that older models seem to have grandfathered in support for it, with the exception of Shows - latterly my gen 2 Show would drop the Bluetooth connection in MRM and play from its internal speakers although I do have a very vague memory from years ago that it did work at one point.

I suspect WiiM’s implementation as an Alexa MRM compatible device might not include Bluetooth support - guess raising a ticket to them would provide a definitive answer. Or maybe scout eBay for more older Dots…

 

[richaardvark]

Here's something to think about... you mention you have nine Echo devices. If they are all in your MRM group and you're adding the WiiM as number ten, you might have reached to MRM music device limit of nine.
Not sure why it would behave the way your setup is, but for me when I try to add more MRM devices, I receive a network error. Must be something to do with the way the MRM system works with redistribution of data. I have confirmed that nine is the limit from some Amazon articles.
(oh, stereo pairs and sub count as 3 devices)

Bluetooth speakers in my MRM setup were always problematic, so I just switched to hardwired powered speaker or use the Echo as a source for normal amp/speaker setup.

My WiiM Amp is a device in my MRM setup and is working great.
If you haven't done so, try removing one current device and see if MRM works. For the heck of it, remove the Bluetooth speakers for a test.

Thank you for mentioning this and what you have said is definitely something to consider and makes sense. Everything is pretty finicky sometimes in the Alexa world in general, that's for sure. I've already tried though deleting the one MRM "Everywhere" group that I had and created a test group with only the WiiM device and one additional non-Bluetooth connected Echo Dot and it still didn't work. It thinks it's working, like it thinks it's actually playing audio on the WiiM via Bluetooth and I'm able to set the latency for it in the Alexa app but no audio is actually coming out. I don't know if anyone else saw the other comment I made about this above in my first post but I've also noticed that volume control doesn't work at all for Bluetooth speakers connected to my WiiM, even if using other services that are not Amazon/Alexa. At first I thought perhaps the audio was playing but maybe the volume was too low but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I definitely have had issues in the past with specific brands/models of Bluetooth speakers with my Echo devices but I've weeded out the ones that gave me nothing but trouble and have stuck with models and brands that have been pretty dependable overall.

 

[richaardvark]

Thanks, that fits in with my experience that older models seem to have grandfathered in support for it, with the exception of Shows - latterly my gen 2 Show would drop the Bluetooth connection in MRM and play from its internal speakers although I do have a very vague memory from years ago that it did work at one point.

The whole way it is configured in the settings anyway is pretty finicky and terribly designed but have you tried looking at the actual settings for the Show itself and then there's that screen where you can choose the default speaker? this whole section which I'm referencing here is super terribly designed and finicky but I think by default it's on "internal speaker" but then there is also "Let Alexa Decide" which is usually grayed out 90% of the time after you've already started using the device and only becomes an available option again if you hard reset the device. Then there's also an option where you can choose manually which speaker or speaker group you want but some of these options become grayed out if the device is in a device group or has been included as a preferred speaker for playback in a device group. I'm thinking that it would still work for you on your Show but that in the actual settings for the chosen speaker it might be set to internal speaker or something similar or that it might just be glitching and might just need to be cleared and re-configured once again. Maybe give that a shot if it's something you want to mess with? Also of course there are other variables such as if your devices are on different Wi-Fi bands and all sorts of parameters and settings on routers that can interfere with all of this. I'm sure you probably know all of this though.

I suspect WiiM’s implementation as an Alexa MRM compatible device might not include Bluetooth support - guess raising a ticket to them would provide a definitive answer. Or maybe scout eBay for more older Dots…

I think this might be the case. Plus I have an older, first-generation WiiM mini/streamer (I think?), don't know if that would be an issue either.

I have a junk drawer of the guts of a number of 2nd-generation Echo Dots that bit the dust for one reason or another at some point although I think I'm missing the actual plastic housing I would need to create a working device. Maybe I can use an old yogurt container or something random to make a terribly hideous and ridiculous but potentially functional Frankenstein Echo Dot? If I'm doing Bluetooth I don't really need the built-in speaker anyway so I wouldn't care about the sound quality.

 

[Wiimer]

Hello!

I have the original / version 1 I believe of the Wiim Mini/streamer. It has the latest firmware and is successfully set up with my Amazon account. Under the Alexa settings I have the uhd/hd turned off. I'm not using a physical hard-wired speaker with my Wiim device, only Bluetooth. The Bluetooth speaker is connected and works fine. The device appears as an Alexa device in my Alexa app and in the Amazon Music app and I have no trouble whatsoever playing music on the individual device itself. However, multi-room music is not working. I've deleted the multi-room group and added it back and it is just silent out of the Wiim device.

I've changed network settings to disable the preferred DNS since I don't use 8.8.8.8 and I turned off IPv6 since I don't use that either. I've rebooted multiple times. I've lowered the audio quality to the lowest possible setting. I've tried making new test multi-room music groups with only the Wiim device and one other Echo device and it says it's playing when in multi-room music mode but there's no sound coming out of the Wiim device, only the Amazon Echo device.

It's also worth noting that the volume control and equalizer features do not seem to have any effect on the music playing on the speaker connected to my wiim device.

Additionally, It's also worth noting that for some reason my Wiim device is not showing up at all in my list of devices connected to my router in my TP-LINK Deco M5 mesh router app. I've searched for the MAC address and also the IP address and I've gone through each of the four mesh satellite nodes one by one and look through all devices but somehow it's not showing up as a device at all but it is indeed connected to the mesh network.

If anyone could offer some insight here I would be really appreciative!

Thank you!

To reproduce your problem, I created an Alexa MRM group on my 4th Gen Echo dot and WiiM mini.

When I play music in this group, the Echo will make a sound, but the WiiMs headphone will not play any sound. When I switched the output to AUX out with the WiiM app, sound came out of the speakers through the amp.

Therefore, my WiiM mini works the same way as you do, and I consider this normal.


Edit:
After that, I tested it under several conditions.
(I turned off the UHD switch on Amazon Music on all devices.)

1. Alexa MRM (WiiM pro / WiiM mini)
Bluetooth out : No sound / AUX out : Yes
※ The same result as the first. The Bluetooth output has no sound.


2. Alexa Room Group (Music Speaker: Echo 4th / WiiM mini)
Bluetooth : No / AUX : Yes
※ The same result as the first. The Bluetooth output has no sound.


3. Linkplay MRM (WiiM pro (host) / WiiM mini)
Bluetooth : Yes (but issue) / AUX : Yes
※ The sound comes out from the Bluetooth output, but the sound is interrupted immediately after the playback starts, and it cannot be played normally.


4. Linkplay MRM (WiiM mini (host) / WiiM pro)
Bluetooth : Yes / AUX : Yes
※I was able to play normally with Bluetooth output.

 

[Brantome]

The whole way it is configured in the settings anyway is pretty finicky and terribly designed but have you tried looking at the actual settings for the Show itself and then there's that screen where you can choose the default speaker? this whole section which I'm referencing here is super terribly designed and finicky but I think by default it's on "internal speaker" but then there is also "Let Alexa Decide" which is usually grayed out 90% of the time after you've already started using the device and only becomes an available option again if you hard reset the device. Then there's also an option where you can choose manually which speaker or speaker group you want but some of these options become grayed out if the device is in a device group or has been included as a preferred speaker for playback in a device group. I'm thinking that it would still work for you on your Show but that in the actual settings for the chosen speaker it might be set to internal speaker or something similar or that it might just be glitching and might just need to be cleared and re-configured once again. Maybe give that a shot if it's something you want to mess with? Also of course there are other variables such as if your devices are on different Wi-Fi bands and all sorts of parameters and settings on routers that can interfere with all of this. I'm sure you probably know all of this though.



I think this might be the case. Plus I have an older, first-generation WiiM mini/streamer (I think?), don't know if that would be an issue either.

I have a junk drawer of the guts of a number of 2nd-generation Echo Dots that bit the dust for one reason or another at some point although I think I'm missing the actual plastic housing I would need to create a working device. Maybe I can use an old yogurt container or something random to make a terribly hideous and ridiculous but potentially functional Frankenstein Echo Dot? If I'm doing Bluetooth I don't really need the built-in speaker anyway so I wouldn't care about the sound quality.

I personally don’t have a need to connect a Bluetooth speaker to any of my echos, but since I’ve been admin of a large Alexa user group since the day Echos hit the U.K., I’ve tried various combinations over the years in response to user queries, and spent (or wasted?) countless hours talking to Amazon support about this and other matters. Despite the section in the Alexa app for troubleshooting such connections, I’m not convinced Bluetooth speakers connected to echo devices is a fully supported feature even though as we know it does work for some models.

 

[richaardvark]

I personally don’t have a need to connect a Bluetooth speaker to any of my echos, but since I’ve been admin of a large Alexa user group since the day Echos hit the U.K., I’ve tried various combinations over the years in response to user queries, and spent (or wasted?) countless hours talking to Amazon support about this and other matters. Despite the section in the Alexa app for troubleshooting such connections, I’m not convinced Bluetooth speakers connected to echo devices is a fully supported feature even though as we know it does work for some models.

Perhaps it's different in the UK though that would be odd. It's a feature I use every single day and have for years now. I would immediately stop using and get rid of all of my Alexa/Echo devices if this feature were no longer an option. All of my Echo devices generally work flawlessly with MRM.

All of my Echo devices (except for two) are permanently connected to Bluetooth devices and speakers. I can even stream a turntable/other aux-input devices on my MRM group using my Echo Link and even that plays just fine on the Bluetooth speakers. It's only the WiiM device that is not working with MRM groups and Bluetooth speakers.

See screenshot of all devices. The three devices at the top that don't have sliders are the only ones that are not connected to Bluetooth devices. The WiiM Mini is the "Downstairs Bathroom Speaker" which is showing as working in the app and it is appearing properly as part of the MRM group and lets you adjust the Bluetooth speaker latency but no sound is coming out of the device. If I play music on it individually however it will indeed play the music from the paired Bluetooth speaker.

I created a help ticket yesterday and hopefully they'll be able to assist me or let me know if this feature is not officially supported.

 

[richaardvark]

To reproduce your problem, I created an Alexa MRM group on my 4th Gen Echo dot and WiiM mini.

When I play music in this group, the Echo will make a sound, but the WiiMs headphone will not play any sound. When I switched the output to AUX out with the WiiM app, sound came out of the speakers through the amp.

Therefore, my WiiM mini works the same way as you do, and I consider this normal.


Edit:
After that, I tested it under several conditions.
(I turned off the UHD switch on Amazon Music on all devices.)

1. Alexa MRM (WiiM pro / WiiM mini)
Bluetooth out : No sound / AUX out : Yes
※ The same result as the first. The Bluetooth output has no sound.


2. Alexa Room Group (Music Speaker: Echo 4th / WiiM mini)
Bluetooth : No / AUX : Yes
※ The same result as the first. The Bluetooth output has no sound.


3. Linkplay MRM (WiiM pro (host) / WiiM mini)
Bluetooth : Yes (but issue) / AUX : Yes
※ The sound comes out from the Bluetooth output, but the sound is interrupted immediately after the playback starts, and it cannot be played normally.


4. Linkplay MRM (WiiM mini (host) / WiiM pro)
Bluetooth : Yes / AUX : Yes
※I was able to play normally with Bluetooth output.

Thank you for trying all of this! I will try some additional configurations myself later today when I get a moment. I'm wondering if the audio quality setting might be the culprit? I think that MRM only streams in like 44.1 kHz. I know the Echo Link is pretty limited anyway which is one of the major criticisms of it. I have my WiiM set to the highest settings so I will try lowering them again.

 

[Brantome]

Perhaps it's different in the UK though that would be odd.

Unfortunately it's a well accepted fact that regions outside the USA, not just the UK, don't get the same Alexa features. I used to maintain a spreadsheet for my Alexa group listing the differences between the UK and USA - sometimes we'd get features including echo models around the same time as the USA, sometimes months or years later, and in some cases never at all. After a while I gave up as it just made depressing reading. The only thing we ever got ahead of the USA was the ability to accept incoming mobile calls to our echo devices. For example, you mentioned your turntable and line-in redistribution via the Echo Link - that's still not available outside the USA (although I am aware of a potential workaround) even though the Link has been available for almost as long here.

However, in this case, I think our experiences are pretty close all told.

 

[Brantome]

Thank you for trying all of this! I will try some additional configurations myself later today when I get a moment. I'm wondering if the audio quality setting might be the culprit? I think that MRM only streams in like 44.1 kHz. I know the Echo Link is pretty limited anyway which is one of the major criticisms of it. I have my WiiM set to the highest settings so I will try lowering them again.

From tests I did with my WiiM Pro, Pro Plus and other Echo devices, including the top of the range echo studio, I've come to the conclusion that Alexa MRM supports up to 16/48 and no more. For Amazon Music, that conveniently ticks the UHD box but you'd struggle to get Amazon to admit (or their frontline agents to understand) that even their own flagship kit doesn't support their higher resolution tracks all the way up to 24/192 with Alexa MRM.

 

[Brantome]

Thank you for trying all of this! I will try some additional configurations myself later today when I get a moment. I'm wondering if the audio quality setting might be the culprit? I think that MRM only streams in like 44.1 kHz. I know the Echo Link is pretty limited anyway which is one of the major criticisms of it. I have my WiiM set to the highest settings so I will try lowering them again.

And, by the way, thanks for the information you've confirmed and for the manner in which you've disseminated it

 

[richaardvark]

Unfortunately it's a well accepted fact that regions outside the USA, not just the UK, don't get the same Alexa features. I used to maintain a spreadsheet for my Alexa group listing the differences between the UK and USA - sometimes we'd get features including echo models around the same time as the USA, sometimes months or years later, and in some cases never at all. After a while I gave up as it just made depressing reading. The only thing we ever got ahead of the USA was the ability to accept incoming mobile calls to our echo devices. For example, you mentioned your turntable and line-in redistribution via the Echo Link - that's still not available outside the USA (although I am aware of a potential workaround) even though the Link has been available for almost as long here.

However, in this case, I think our experiences are pretty close all told.

Sorry to hear that there are discrepancies in the offered services regionally like this :-/ I think if I recall you can set your location and language to the US and then it lets you have the US features? Or maybe it was you have to update your entire amazon.com profile to be US?

If it's any consolation, your McDonald's offerings are a million times better than our McDonald's offerings

But also sorry for introducing rampant obesity and diabetes into the world

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[Brantome]

Sorry to hear that there are discrepancies in the offered services regionally like this :-/ I think if I recall you can set your location and language to the US and then it lets you have the US features? Or maybe it was you have to update your entire amazon.com profile to be US?

Yeah, you can change your country/region under preferences under prefs in your Amazon account, but that can mess up your Kindle library, subscriptions, skills (like BBC Sounds) which rely on UK Alexa services etc. While some did that to access Alexa Guard or to set up their Echo Auto before its release here, I never thought it was worth the hassle.

If it's any consolation, your McDonald's offerings are a million times better than our McDonald's offerings

But also sorry for introducing rampant obesity and diabetes into the world

I remember being on holiday in France many years ago and being surprised to find they offered salads in McDo's!! Although it was fun having to put on a fake French accent to order McSheeken Royahl avec deloox potahtos - they didn't understand it all if you ordered in unaccented English