Bit Perfect Setting

[Davide]

Dear WiiM Development Team,

your streamer is simply a fantastic tool.

There are a couple of things I would suggest though.

The first, which frustrates many people, is the fact that the audio from the digital output is bit perfect or no.
Now, for the peace of all users, I would like to ask please if you can put a single simple setting in the menu, called Bit Perfect, to be set On or Off. So that when active it creates a direct stream from the source to the digital output, bypassing any volume controls, eq, limiter, sample rate converter, etc.
So we don't have to check every time that everything is ok...

Thanks in advance for your attention.

 

[ratty]

Many years (decades?) ago this used to be my philosophy. There were no tone controls on 'higher' end amps. Folks would experiment with swapping in and out different interconnect and speaker cables to desperately try and 'improve' the response through the audio chain. They'd even tinker with the individual speaker drivers.

As I've aged I've come to realise how forlorn this approach was. Mixing/mastering is not perfect. Reproducer and room responses are not perfect. Human hearing is definitely not perfect, and becomes progressively less so with passing years.

Delivery of bit-perfect audio data out of a streamer simply ensures that I can then apply suitable 'correction' in my chosen signal processing environment.

 

[Achim1811]

For me It is all about authenticity! Who am I to correct the work of an artist? Even if they tinkered and "failed" I will respect it. Would you correct a painting from Picasso or van Gogh, because his used material that time was not as good as the actual stuff? Or you think you can prepare it for your eyes?

 

[ratty]

Tinker with da Vinci? Of course I wouldn't know where to start. I do, on the other hand, need to wear spectacles in order to correct my eyesight deficiencies sufficiently to admire his craftsmanship.

EQ isn't about changing the position or intensity of instruments in an artist's mix. It's largely (IMO) to correct for deficiencies in the audio transmission chain from studio to brain.

 

[Achim1811]

Thanks heaven we can choose. In peaceful discussion, harmony and each one to his own likes. But (for me!!) EQs are always the evil
Edit: May be I have heard to many amateurs playing around with this toy destroying good music.

 

[ratty]

Indeed. Each to their own. But, as I say, I cast off the 'hair shirt' approach a long while back. Life's too short ... and imperfect. Besides, you can never escape the EQ 'evil' entirely: consider what your DAC's reconstruction filter is actually doing...

 

[Achim1811]

Of course, but I am absolutely sure the engineers of my chosen stuff did a tremendous good job
And I do my part and give this hifi its deserved environment.
It is the same with the doctor of your choice, normally it is likely he is right. My chance to survive is higher if I follow his instructions. Not mine. As always, those comparisons are niff naff, I know. But....

 

[Maurizio]

@Davide
My only point was that I do not want to be part of this "we". Such statements of the infamous "common sense" make me always nervous. Especially in HiFi. And please allow me a different meaning, ok?

I embark myself on Achim’s boat

 

[Achim1811]

Hoah, heah...and up she rises

 

[Maurizio]

Thanks heaven we can choose. In peaceful discussion, harmony and each one to his own likes. But (for me!!) EQs are always the evil
Edit: May be I have heard to many amateurs playing around with this toy destroying good music.

In the very past i have had an HiFi EQ. I played with it, with phonometer and so on. Never satisfied!! Solution? I sold it in a hurry

 

[goodmore]

For me It is all about authenticity! Who am I to correct the work of an artist? Even if they tinkered and "failed" I will respect it. Would you correct a painting from Picasso or van Gogh, because his used material that time was not as good as the actual stuff? Or you think you can prepare it for your eyes?

The painting of such artists give a different perception depending on lighting and background wall colors. All unique to a location. Recorded music has no way to adjust for a person's listening environment and the hardware such as speakers on which it is played. In the end it is all up to the listener on what sounds better. Is the intention of a played recording at home to sound like a live performance in your living room or to admire what a sound technician did through manipulation in the recording studio? My point? I don't think very many live performances even come close to sounding like their studio recorded versions. If the artists aren't worried about it why should we?

 

[Achim1811]

The painting of such artists give a different perception depending on lighting and background wall colors. All unique to a location. Recorded music has no way to adjust for a person's listening environment and the hardware such as speakers on which it is played. In the end it is all up to the listener on what sounds better.

I never denied the last line and my posts are always only my view on the things. And I will never bow music to my likes. If this music would need that it is simply not my music.

 

[happykyd]

With volume fixed and EQ off, WiiM Pro is bit-perfect. Tested over S/PDIF coax at up to 24/192. RME provides test files for their DAC.

Interestingly, with EQ on but 'flat' the test failed. So steer clear of the equaliser.

Just started using Wiim Pro, late to the convo
I get the EQ impact but is fixed volume 100% mandatory to have bit perfect?

 

[Mr Ee]

Just started using Wiim Pro, late to the convo
I get the EQ impact but is fixed volume 100% mandatory to have bit perfect?

Yes.
Otherwise what goes out has been modified, so is not bit perfect.

Or, are you asking if volume is variable, but is set to 100%, is that the same as fixed?

 

[happykyd]

Yes.
Otherwise what goes out has been modified, so is not bit perfect.

Or, are you asking if volume is variable, but is set to 100%, is that the same as fixed?

Cheers,

re 'modified' are fewer bits sent? If volume level is sent via voltage level how are the digital pieces compromised?

And yes it follows, is variable volume pushed up to 100% the same output signal as fixed?

Appreciate your insights, I am both satisfied when it sounds good and nerdy enough to want to understand what is going on

 

[Brantome]

I personally just view bit perfect as meaning the streamer hasn’t introduced any unwanted changes to the signal I.e. it’s outputting exactly what it received. To ensure that you need fixed volume, no volume limit, no EQ/PEQ nor Mono setting.

However, if you choose as I do for example to use PEQ, fixed volume with a 94% volume limit then you’ve elected to change the signal so it‘s no longer what was received but is now modified to your taste.

 

[Mr Ee]

re 'modified' are fewer bits sent

If it's just a volume change then the same amount of data is sent, it's just not the original data.

Let's take a 44.1/16 signal. The 16 refers to the number of bits to describe the volume (wave amplitude), with approx 65,000 values available.
If the volume at a particular instant in time was, say, 40,000 and you used the wiim to reduce the volume then that would be changed to, say, 30,000 instead. Same number of bits (16) used to specify the volume, just a different value sent on to the dac.

is variable volume pushed up to 100% the same output signal as fixed?

I'm sure someone here has checked before, but I can't remember!
You'd hope that a setting of 100% would mean that the software would know that no change should be applied, therefore retaining the original precicely.

 

[J-ROD]

The output is bit perfect if fixed volume is on and EQ is off, so only two things to check…

What about the balance control ?

 

[Mr Ee]

What about the balance control ?

That quote from Brantome is from 6 months or so ago.
Balance control is a new feature, and yes, if used the output will not be bit perfect.

Firmware 4.8.604350

The Qobuz autoplay support is particularly appreciated!

forum.wiimhome.com

 

[Brantome]

Output will be bitperfect if you use fixed volume and don’t use EQ, PEQ, Mono, volume limit nor balance. Personally I prefer the definition of bit perfect which means that the device doesn’t make any unwanted changes to the signal it received, which Wiim devices don’t - if you however want to make changes such as those above because it sounds better to you, then so what if it is no longer “bit perfect”? The signal isn’t degraded, just different.

 

[Smartplug]

Music is personal preference some want to adjust bass or treble to spice things up especially if their old and their hearing degraded.