DSD transcoded on the fly to PCM-192kHz?

[daydreamer]

I've been enjoying the new Squeezelite functionality of the WiiM Pro and thought I'd see what would happen if I played some of my .dsf files from my LMS music library. To my surprise, music immediately played in decent sound quality with my DAC indicating PCM 192kHz.

Firstly, I was not expecting this to work at all, so good news! Second, I verified that no dsdplay executable was running on my LMS server, indicating that the conversion was being done inside the WiiM Pro. Finally, I note that conversion from 2.8224 MHz to 192kHz involves asynchronous rate conversion, while the more logical and simple conversion would have been to 176.4kHz, and could probably have been done with higher technical quality.

If this DSD conversion feature is official, I welcome it, but would have preferred pass through of DoP, or if conversion to PCM is done then a higher quality resampling to 176.4kHz would be desirable. (To my ears, WiiM's conversion from 2.8224MHz 1-bit to 192kHz is not of the same quality as Roon's server-side conversion of the same source material to 176.4kHz when sent via my WiiM Pro to the same DAC.)

Can anyone confirm the current status of DSD processing on WiiM Pro and Pro+ products?

Charles.

 

[Brantome]

Can anyone confirm the current status of DSD processing on WiiM Pro and Pro+ products?

WiiM could confirm this if you were to raise a ticket thru the feedback section of the WiiM Home app.

I’m not aware that WiiM devices do support DSD files. What happens if you don’t use LMS to deliver the file (e.g. copy one to your phone/tablet and have the Wiim home app access it locally), does it still play? Despite you saying you have checked, my gut feeling would be that LMS is somehow transcoding the file.

 

[waldo]

What DAC are you using?

 

[CrystalGipsy]

Squeezelite I believe needs running in a certain mode using -D switch to pass it through. But not sure Wiim actually support it in their playback chain, just because a DAC chip may support DSD doesn’t mean its implementation in certain hardware allow for it. Wiim mention no support for it in their specs.

 

[daydreamer]

WiiM could confirm this if you were to raise a ticket thru the feedback section of the WiiM Home app.

I’m not aware that WiiM devices do support DSD files. What happens if you don’t use LMS to deliver the file (e.g. copy one to your phone/tablet and have the Wiim home app access it locally), does it still play? Despite you saying you have checked, my gut feeling would be that LMS is somehow transcoding the file.

I don't blame you for thinking that. One further piece of evidence is that LMS reports the WiiM-pro player under the DSDplay setting as follows:-

"This player supports native playback of DSD files. DSD-over-PCM should be configured on the player configuration interface."

Since LMS thinks the WiiM pro supports native playback of DSD (as evidenced by the above), it will certainly try to send it DSD.

Charles.

 

[Brantome]

Where’s the DSDPlay setting on LMS? I can’t see it on my piCorePlayer setup. Does the fact you’re seeing that setting suggest that you do have a DSD module available?

 

[daydreamer]

Where’s the DSDPlay setting on LMS? I can’t see it on my piCorePlayer setup. Does the fact you’re seeing that setting suggest that you do have a DSD module available?

I find it under settings, in the player tab, then use the pull-down menu to switch from "Basic Settings" to "DSDPlayer."

If I disable native playback of DSD files in the Advanced->File Types menu, I can force local transcoding to PCM by LMS. This results in a 176.4kHz PCM stream being sent to WiiM, vs. if I let WiiM do it, I get 192kHz as mentioned before.

The running process list in my Docker container helps me confirm when active transcoding is happening. See process 19287 below after disabling native DSD playback file types .dsf and .dff


Although I can't prove it by posting an image, I can tell you that no such transcoding process appears when I enable native DSD playback.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[Wiimer]

I've been enjoying the new Squeezelite functionality of the WiiM Pro and thought I'd see what would happen if I played some of my .dsf files from my LMS music library. To my surprise, music immediately played in decent sound quality with my DAC indicating PCM 192kHz.

Firstly, I was not expecting this to work at all, so good news! Second, I verified that no dsdplay executable was running on my LMS server, indicating that the conversion was being done inside the WiiM Pro. Finally, I note that conversion from 2.8224 MHz to 192kHz involves asynchronous rate conversion, while the more logical and simple conversion would have been to 176.4kHz, and could probably have been done with higher technical quality.

If this DSD conversion feature is official, I welcome it, but would have preferred pass through of DoP, or if conversion to PCM is done then a higher quality resampling to 176.4kHz would be desirable. (To my ears, WiiM's conversion from 2.8224MHz 1-bit to 192kHz is not of the same quality as Roon's server-side conversion of the same source material to 176.4kHz when sent via my WiiM Pro to the same DAC.)

Can anyone confirm the current status of DSD processing on WiiM Pro and Pro+ products?

Charles.

This specification table shows that the Pro Plus can play the DSD512.

Specs for WiiM Pro and Pro Plus | WiiM

www.wiimhome.com

I don't know if this post will help you..

 

[Brantome]

@d6jg - do you have any insight on this? Thanks

 

[Brantome]

This specification table shows that the Pro Plus can play the DSD512.

Specs for WiiM Pro and Pro Plus | WiiM

www.wiimhome.com

I don't know if this post will help you..

View attachment 2717

I think looks like the DAC capabilities, but doesn’t say that the firmware supports it. For example, there’s no setting in the WiiM home app to support those output resolutions.

 

[Wiimer]

I think looks like the DAC capabilities, but doesn’t say that the firmware supports it. For example, there’s no setting in the WiiM home app to support those output resolutions.

If it is according to the specifications, I think that Wiim will convert DSD to PCM and play at 192Khz, but I don't know because I don't have DSD.

 

[Brantome]

If it is according to the specifications, I think that Wiim will convert DSD to PCM and play at 192Khz, but I don't know because I don't have DSD.

The last we’ve heard from WiiM on the forum was back in January where they said they’d ask engineering if they could support dsf files, but I haven’t seen anything since then to say they have implemented support.

 

[d6jg]

@d6jg - do you have any insight on this? Thanks

Sorry I don't do DSD

 

[Wiimer]

The last we’ve heard from WiiM on the forum was back in January where they said they’d ask engineering if they could support dsf files, but I haven’t seen anything since then to say they have implemented support.

Certainly, you won't find any mention of DSD in the Amazon catalog or manual.

 

[onlyoneme]

I've tried with DSD64 .dsf file and it was played over LMS on both Pro and Pro Plus devices. WHA reports it as 1 bit 2822.4 kHz stream and the DAC can see it as 192 kHz stream. It doesn't work at all when played directly through WHA.

 

[Brantome]

I've tried with DSD64 .dsf file and it was played over LMS on both Pro and Pro Plus devices. WHA reports it as 1 bit 2822.4 kHz stream and the DAC can see it as 192 kHz stream. It doesn't work at all when played directly through WHA.

Yeah, just going thru trying that too - looks like the squeezelite client might be providing the support as I don’t have the DSDPlay plugin installed at all on LMS.

Edit: While my Linn MDSM does support those files natively, it doesn‘t look like my WiiM Pro even passes that thru over its coax output. Given it appears to be working for Squeezelite, maybe WiiM can also implement it easily when LMS isn’t involved.

 

[onlyoneme]

Yeah, just going thru trying that too - looks like the squeezelite client might be providing the support.

Probably as I do not see any sign of transcoding in LMS logs on the server side.

 

[Brantome]

Probably as I do not see any sign of transcoding in LMS logs on the server side.

Yeah, as per my edited comment, I don’t have any DSD plugin or libs loaded on piCorePlayer.

 

[onlyoneme]

Yeah, as per my edited comment, I don’t have any DSD plugin or libs loaded on piCorePlayer.

Me neither and DSF Native is the only option for DSF in File types of LMS.

 

[onlyoneme]

Edit: While my Linn MDSM does support those files natively, it doesn‘t look like my WiiM Pro even passes that thru over its coax output. Given it appears to be working for Squeezelite, maybe WiiM can also implement it easily when LMS isn’t involved.

The same with ADI-2, it reports an ordinary PCM stream.