Max Volume to low?!

[harkpabst]

Ok...gain on Wiim it's very low , some songs are pretty low volume at 100%.
Now it's correct? I understand that gain it's output divided by input... this thing is not ok on Wiim.

Much better.

I agree that WiiM has been too conservative here for my taste. But: There's nothing wrong with volume settings of 80 or 90 or even more. Just because the volume setting is at 100% doesn't mean the amplifier is at 100% of its output power. Or to put it the other way around: Just because any amp sounds really loud with the volume control set to 30% doesn't mean there is still 70% of headroom.

All inputs of the WiiM Amp are either digital or digitized right away. When overdriven they will clip hard instantly. WiiM obviously wanted to make this fool-proof, but went over the top, I think. But still, if you can get to your desired level at all (no matter what volume setting), there is absolutely no problem. In fact, with a digital volume control being higher up in the range for usual levels is not a bad thing.

 

[Dragos05azs]

Yes , but you have that 30% insanely loud ..on wiim I have a maximum of "pretty loud" with 89db speakers. I bought this amp for the specs ..60W on 8Ohm (I had 30W /ch Denon F07 , Yamaha RXE 400 , 50W Yamaha R-S300) and I thought I'm fine with 60 ...but ...gain,power...to low

 

[harkpabst]

Yes , but you have that 30% insanely loud ..on wiim I have a maximum of "pretty loud" with 89db speakers. I bought this amp for the specs ..60W on 8Ohm (I had 30W /ch Denon F07 , Yamaha RXE 400 , 50W Yamaha R-S300) and I thought I'm fine with 60 ...but ...gain,power...to low

What are your main sources then?
I'm sure that this is not the same for all sources, power really isn't the issue.

PS:
I really wish that WiiM would give us the option of adding some digital gain per input. It might reduce SINAD a bit, but this would hardly be noticeable in most cases and be far more convenient.

 

[Dragos05azs]

What are your main sources then?
I'm sure that this is not the same for all sources, power really isn't the issue.

PS:
I really wish that WiiM would give us the option of adding some digital gain per input. It might reduce SINAD a bit, but this would hardly be noticeable in most cases and be far more convenient.

on Wiim , Tidal and local storage ..same perceived volume.
with Yamaha I use IfI Zen Stream /Tidal .
Yes , gain per input will be a great addition, until then I'm stuck with Yamaha . Sounds great , much better than wiim but it's to big for my taste.Way to big.

 

[harkpabst]

How is WiiM a source?
Tidal Connect or Tidal via Chromecast or integrated into WiiM Home?
Files local to what? Smartphone, Computer, local WiiM Amp USB?

If you don't have measuring equipment a reasonable source selection for subjective comparison would be one of the many Internet radio stations available everywhere in the world, like e.g. the Radio Paradise main mix (built into WiiM Products as a predefined streaming service.

Volume set to 100% drives my KEF LS50s to unpleasantly loud levels. Not wall-shaking, but my neighbours will understand every word of what is played. Just a bit higher and the woofers's. Oice coils would start hitting the magnet. This is on a small room of approx. 15 m².

 

[Dragos05azs]

I thought it is obvious.. Tidal (not tidal Connect ) on Wiim app.Local ..is on wiim's USB input .
Kef ls50 are 85 db ... ok , my speakers are 89 and at 100% is loud on same tracks, and low on others(thist is the problem , It can't go louder in this scenario...)

 

[harkpabst]

Nothing is ever obvious for anybody but yourself.

The 1996 album IL Ladro by Angelo Branduardi is known to be of really low average level, but with very good dynamics. Played from Tidal through the WiiM Home app I can just barely reach the sound pressure levels I would play on my main system (if I am alone and the neighbours are on holiday). Not extremely loud, but way too loud to talk to anybody in the same room.

Room size and listening distance matter just as much as speaker sensitivity and amplifier power.

 

[Fender]

Nothing is ever obvious for anybody but yourself.

The 1996 album IL Ladro by Angelo Branduardi is known to be of really low average level, but with very good dynamics. Played from Tidal through the WiiM Home app I can just barely reach the sound pressure levels I would play on my main system (if I am alone and the neighbours are on holiday). Not extremely loud, but way too loud to talk to anybody in the same room.

Room size and listening distance matter just as much as speaker sensitivity and amplifier power.

(OT: Thank you for bringing back Signore Branduardi to my mind. Found the CD quite quick and are now listening with great pleasure!)

 

[wiimamp user]

My room is around 40m².
If I had the volume on 100 % it would be very loud.
Too loud I would say.
I have neighbours... ,if I would play my music often on- let's say- 80 % I definitely would have issues with my neighbours.

They would hear my music clearly. Even if we have no thin walls here..not at all.

I'm quite sure they don't have my music taste and they wouldn't like it playing music at these volumes.
I also have an subwoofer so that would it all make the situation even more difficult.
If they would hear some Nynke Laverman maybe they would accept it but in sure of you play for instance some heavy metal it would be torture to some people..

 

[twulf]

Interesting:

 

[wiimamp user]

But talking about decibels...
How loud do you want to go..
What about the decibels to your ears and the decibels the neighbours are receiving?
If I would play certain music on 80 percent my neighbours would go crazy.
The power to make your neighbours go nuts and you're own ears also.. resulting demanding more power because damage to you're ears because you cant hear some details anymore.

 

[harkpabst]

Interesting, yes, but not to be overrated regarding the meaning of multitone power measurements.

In the comments section, Gene of Audioholics (Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Audioholics) made some interesting remarks regarding this testing procedure. Most importantly, he's announcing an article by and interview with Bruno Putzeys on this topic. Just in case anybody doesn't know him: Bruno Putzeys is the genius behind inventions made by companies like e.g. Grimm Audio, Hypex, Purify, Kii Audio or Mola Mola.

Erin is a good guy, no doubt. I have more trust in his reviews than in most others. But in the end he's not an electrical engineer employed in the audio industry. And he doesn't have a Wikipedia entry on his person.

Bruno Putzeys - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[onlyoneme]

Interesting, yes, but not to be overrated regarding the meaning of multitone power measurements.

In the comments section, Gene of Audioholics (Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Audioholics) made some interesting remarks regarding this testing procedure. Most importantly, he's announcing an article by and interview with Bruno Putzeys on this topic. Just in case anybody doesn't know him: Bruno Putzeys is the genius behind inventions made by companies like e.g. Grimm Audio, Hypex, Purify, Kii Audio or Mola Mola.

Erin is a good guy, no doubt. I have more trust in his reviews than in most others. But in the end he's not an electrical engineer employed in the audio industry. And he doesn't have a Wikipedia entry on his person.

Bruno Putzeys - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Can you share details? I'm curious if it's related to Erin's findings on multitone behavior which were different than mine.
I suspect his multitone wasn't optimized to minimize crest factor thus difference between peak level and rms level was quite high if staying below the digital clipping level.

 

[harkpabst]

Can you share details? I'm curious if it's related to Erin's findings on multitone behavior which were different than mine.
I suspect his multitone wasn't optimized to minimize crest factor thus difference between peak level and rms level was quite high if staying below the digital clipping level.

I have no personal inside knowledge here but only know what's buried deep in the comments. We have to wait and watch the Audioholics channel for updates.

But as far as I understand it the upcoming article will point into the exact same direction you mentioned.

 

[twulf]

Has anyone actually read my initial thread? Or paid attention to my Db measurement? I only measure 87dB at full (100%) volume with pink noise... My speakers deliver 90dB at 1 watt according to several test reports! So there's obviously something wrong with the amplification - whether pre-amplification or power amplification! And - the most important fact! No response from the WIIM support since 9 days!

 

[Dragos05azs]

I don't think is something wrong with your amp,for a bedroom 87dB is way loud , but for a living space some people will say it's low .
For my taste 87db it's a bit low , my listening volume it's around 90-92 db(test with phone, maybe a pro measurements will say more or less).
On some albums , with 80-85% volume it's ok , but with 50% of albums 100% it's not.Maybe with a speaker with 92+ it's a fair deal.

 

[harkpabst]

Has anyone actually read my initial thread?

Sure. Too little detail to go into that much further. Any measurements taken with a phone are really just very rough approximations that can easily be wrong by ±10 dB.

My speakers deliver 90dB at 1 watt according to several test reports! So there's obviously something wrong with the amplification - whether pre-amplification or power amplification!

Is the volume too low for you listening (like in the case of @Dragos05azs) or do you just want to read a fancy number on your phone? From what you have told us so far you cannot conclude that the device it faulty. It might or might not be fit for the desired purpose.

And - the most important fact! No response from the WIIM support since 9 days!

Did you reply to the "Ticket Received" email WiiM Support sent you? It explicitly tells you to if you want to get an individual reply from them.

 

[onlyoneme]

Do you have a multimeter?

 

[click69]

Was genau bedeutet das also? Lautstärkeregler auf 100 % eingestellt? Und vor allem: Welche Quelle?

Ja genau, bei 100% eingestellter Lautstärke ist maximal leicht gehobene Zimmerlautstärke möglich, hab zwar nichts gemessen, aber für mich deutlich zu leise.
Quelle tidal und Spotify diverse Titel.

 

[Brantome]

Ja genau, bei 100% eingestellter Lautstärke ist maximal leicht gehobene Zimmerlautstärke möglich, hab zwar nichts gemessen, aber für mich deutlich zu leise.
Quelle tidal und Spotify diverse Titel.

Could you please post in English? Thanks