MQA decoding via internal dac

[cminnett]

Hello! I am the proud new owner of a WiiM Mini. During the presales process, I asked a few questions about MQA decoding. I am sure I was told that the WiiM Mini’s internal DAC decodes Tidal MQA. I am expecting to use the Mini to stream content via wifi, then decode the stream with MQA content and then use the 3.5 mm output to send the decoded analogue signal to my amp. Does the internal DAC on the WiiM mini decode Tidal MQA? I don’t see how to configure that or enable it anywhere.

Thanks!!

 

[Pcryan5]

Device | Audio Settingss

 

[Brantome]

Hello! I am the proud new owner of a WiiM Mini. During the presales process, I asked a few questions about MQA decoding. I am sure I was told that the WiiM Mini’s internal DAC decodes Tidal MQA. I am expecting to use the Mini to stream content via wifi, then decode the stream with MQA content and then use the 3.5 mm output to send the decoded analogue signal to my amp. Does the internal DAC on the WiiM mini decode Tidal MQA? I don’t see how to configure that or enable it anywhere.

Thanks!!

The WiiM only does the first unfold - for full MQA decoding, you’ll need an MQA capable external DAC

 

[cminnett]

Okay. So, the Wiim Mini will not itself decode MQA on it's internal DAC?

I had a FiiO KA1 that did decode MQA and sent the signal via an analogue 3.5 mm output but I sent it back to Amazon because the cable from the FiiO KA1 dac to whatever device you were hooking it up to was not interchangeable and only had either a lightning version or a USB C version. I saw the WiiM mini and the MQA documentation is incorrect and confusing so I asked the people at WiiM about the MQA. They said it would totally decode MQA and I could send the signal along the analogue path. Therefore, I sent the FiiO Ka1 back and ordered the WIIM mini. Unfortunately, it seems that I am now finding out that I need an external DAC to decode the MQA data? They really need to fix the description on the website and also need to pay attention to what I am asking about when I send questions in as they must not have understood what I was asking. I guess my only option is to send the Mini back because it doesn't do what I thought it did and put up with the pain of the FiiO KA1 not having an interchangeable cable or I may have to save up and get a real DAC or even the Bluesound Node?

 

[onlyoneme]

Okay. So, the Wiim Mini will not itself decode MQA on it's internal DAC?

I had a FiiO KA1 that did decode MQA and sent the signal via an analogue 3.5 mm output but I sent it back to Amazon because the cable from the FiiO KA1 dac to whatever device you were hooking it up to was not interchangeable and only had either a lightning version or a USB C version. I saw the WiiM mini and the MQA documentation is incorrect and confusing so I asked the people at WiiM about the MQA. They said it would totally decode MQA and I could send the signal along the analogue path. Therefore, I sent the FiiO Ka1 back and ordered the WIIM mini. Unfortunately, it seems that I am now finding out that I need an external DAC to decode the MQA data? They really need to fix the description on the website and also need to pay attention to what I am asking about when I send questions in as they must not have understood what I was asking. I guess my only option is to send the Mini back because it doesn't do what I thought it did and put up with the pain of the FiiO KA1 not having an interchangeable cable or I may have to save up and get a real DAC or even the Bluesound Node?

It will perform the first unfold in the software. It's unrelated to the DAC. If you have an MQA renderer you can unfold it further on the external device.

 

[Pcryan5]

FWIW - This is from WiiM Support (the wonder team ) while it's a bit off topic it is well interesting.
---------------
Using MQA is very strict and the audio stream can't be changed. As we known, if you turn on EQ or adjust the volume less than 100, the audio stream will be changed and the MQA mark becomes broken, so your DAC can't detect the MQA stream.

Please go to Device tab -> Device setting gear icon -> Audio settings to turn on Fixed volume output and turn off the EQ setting on your device to maintain the MQA mark in the audio stream and your DAC will display the MQA badge.

 

[Mr Ee]

Okay. So, the Wiim Mini will not itself decode MQA on it's internal DAC?

I had a FiiO KA1 that did decode MQA and sent the signal via an analogue 3.5 mm output but I sent it back to Amazon because the cable from the FiiO KA1 dac to whatever device you were hooking it up to was not interchangeable and only had either a lightning version or a USB C version. I saw the WiiM mini and the MQA documentation is incorrect and confusing so I asked the people at WiiM about the MQA. They said it would totally decode MQA and I could send the signal along the analogue path. Therefore, I sent the FiiO Ka1 back and ordered the WIIM mini. Unfortunately, it seems that I am now finding out that I need an external DAC to decode the MQA data? They really need to fix the description on the website and also need to pay attention to what I am asking about when I send questions in as they must not have understood what I was asking. I guess my only option is to send the Mini back because it doesn't do what I thought it did and put up with the pain of the FiiO KA1 not having an interchangeable cable or I may have to save up and get a real DAC or even the Bluesound Node?

It will perform the first unfold in the software. It's unrelated to the DAC. If you have an MQA renderer you can unfold it further on the external device.

There are two levels of decoding, Core and Full.
Core does just the first unfold, Full does both unfolds.
A Renderer takes a core decoded signal and does the 2nd unfold.

If wiim advised that their product will 'totally decode MQA' then that's not true, as totally would imply Full decode.
Wiim can perform Core decode.

However, there does seem to be a lot of confusion with MQA and terminology, so it's possibly not surprising that many think of it as decode and render, in which case the wiim does decode...

From the horse's mouth, so to speak.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://bobtalks.co.uk/blog/science-mqa/mqa-playback/%23:~:text%3DMQA%2520Renderer%253A%2520This%2520new%2520class,MQA%2520stream%2520or%2520Authenticate%2520it.&ved=2ahUKEwiDurXU9cz8AhVGFbcAHfkPCQwQFnoECA8QBQ&usg=AOvVaw1soB7pC9Be66Bhk1VrHTmG

 

[cminnett]

FWIW - This is from WiiM Support (the wonder team ) while it's a bit off topic it is well interesting.
---------------
Using MQA is very strict and the audio stream can't be changed. As we known, if you turn on EQ or adjust the volume less than 100, the audio stream will be changed and the MQA mark becomes broken, so your DAC can't detect the MQA stream.

Please go to Device tab -> Device setting gear icon -> Audio settings to turn on Fixed volume output and turn off the EQ setting on your device to maintain the MQA mark in the audio stream and your DAC will display the MQA badge.

Thanks for the reply! I was planning on using the DAC inside the WiiM Mini though? Everyone keeps talking about an external dac. I don't have another external dac, just the mini. I was under the impression that the dac inside the mini would take the MQA signal and convert it to analogue so I could use the 3.5 mm analogue output to go to my new amplifier that is all analogue. I am seeing a lot of advice here to use an external dac, but I am not using an external dac, I am using the analogue output of the mini. There is obviously something here I am not getting perhaps? Is the simple answer here "No" and I should send my unit back and pay much more money somewhere else? Thanks!

 

[Pcryan5]

I gave up on Tidal and the great MQA muddle - subscribed to Qubuz (for less) and am a happy camper.
Sorry - other then pithy commentary I have no advice.

 

[onlyoneme]

Thanks for the reply! I was planning on using the DAC inside the WiiM Mini though? Everyone keeps talking about an external dac. I don't have another external dac, just the mini. I was under the impression that the dac inside the mini would take the MQA signal and convert it to analogue so I could use the 3.5 mm analogue output to go to my new amplifier that is all analogue. I am seeing a lot of advice here to use an external dac, but I am not using an external dac, I am using the analogue output of the mini. There is obviously something here I am not getting perhaps? Is the simple answer here "No" and I should send my unit back and pay much more money somewhere else? Thanks!

The DAC chip inside WiiM will take the unfolded stream and convert it to analog signal. But it will not unfold it further before conversion.

 

[cminnett]

It will perform the first unfold in the software. It's unrelated to the DAC. If you have an MQA renderer you can unfold it further on the external device.

Can you please explain how it is unrelated to the dac? Wiim told me that the on-board dac on the mini could decode MQA and then send an analogue signal via the 3.5 mm output to my amp. How is that unrelated to the dac on the mini when it is the dac that does the decoding. I am so confused. I think that my answer is just to go back to using the FiiO KA1. It's internal dac decodes MQA and there is no confusion about what it does and what I get from it. I don't know why this is so perplexing to understand? lol! The KA1 just doesn't have streaming ability and it comes with either a USB C connecter or a lighting, non-interchangeable. From what I am getting here, is that I received some misinformation from the WiiM company and the internal DAC on the mini simply does not have the ability to decode MQA but the device itself can pass through MQA data to a different external DAC. I am sure that is what all this adds up to? The FiiO is about $50 and will give me MQA...just no streaming, I would have to use my phone for that and that is a pain. I thought this was my answer to spending $700 on a bluesound Node. Thanks!

 

[cminnett]

The DAC chip inside WiiM will take the unfolded stream and convert it to analog signal. But it will not unfold it further before conversion.

Hi Onlyoneme. thanks again! It looks like it is quite simple. The on-board dac on the Wiim Mini does not unfold MQA and send it via analogue output. If I want something that does that, I either have to get an external DAC and spend more money or get a Bluesound Node. DO you know of any decent external DACS I could plug the mini into and would you use the optical or coaxial output? Thanks!

 

[onlyoneme]

Can you please explain how it is unrelated to the dac? Wiim told me that the on-board dac on the mini could decode MQA and then send an analogue signal via the 3.5 mm output to my amp. How is that unrelated to the dac on the mini when it is the dac that does the decoding. I am so confused. I think that my answer is just to go back to using the FiiO KA1. It's internal dac decodes MQA and there is no confusion about what it does and what I get from it. I don't know why this is so perplexing to understand? lol! The KA1 just doesn't have streaming ability and it comes with either a USB C connecter or a lighting, non-interchangeable. From what I am getting here, is that I received some misinformation from the WiiM company and the internal DAC on the mini simply does not have the ability to decode MQA but the device itself can pass through MQA data to a different external DAC. I am sure that is what all this adds up to? The FiiO is about $50 and will give me MQA...just no streaming, I would have to use my phone for that and that is a pain. I thought this was my answer to spending $700 on a bluesound Node. Thanks!

MQA stream is delivered as 44,1 / 48 kHz content with 24 bits depth. It can be unfolded by WiiM software to 88.2 / 96 / 24 stream. It is done without any DAC activity. And later it can be converted to analog signal by the internal DAC.

 

[cminnett]

I gave up on Tidal and the great MQA muddle - subscribed to Qubuz (for less) and am a happy camper.
Sorry - other then pithy commentary I have no advice.

Hi Pcryan5,

Please tell me more about Qubuz? What is that and it is better than Tidal?

Thanks again!

Craig

 

[cminnett]

MQA stream is delivered as 44,1 / 48 kHz content with 24 bits depth. It can be unfolded by WiiM software to 88.2 / 96 / 24 stream. It is done without any DAC activity. And later it can be converted to analog signal by the internal DAC.

Thank you! I now know where I stand with the WiiM Mini. Take care

 

[cminnett]

There are two levels of decoding, Core and Full.
Core does just the first unfold, Full does both unfolds.
A Renderer takes a core decoded signal and does the 2nd unfold.

If wiim advised that their product will 'totally decode MQA' then that's not true, as totally would imply Full decode.
Wiim can perform Core decode.

However, there does seem to be a lot of confusion with MQA and terminology, so it's possibly not surprising that many think of it as decode and render, in which case the wiim does decode...

From the horse's mouth, so to speak.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://bobtalks.co.uk/blog/science-mqa/mqa-playback/%23:~:text%3DMQA%2520Renderer%253A%2520This%2520new%2520class,MQA%2520stream%2520or%2520Authenticate%2520it.&ved=2ahUKEwiDurXU9cz8AhVGFbcAHfkPCQwQFnoECA8QBQ&usg=AOvVaw1soB7pC9Be66Bhk1VrHTmG

Just saw this too! Very helpful! Thank you Mr Ee.

 

[Smartplug]

Hello! I am the proud new owner of a WiiM Mini. During the presales process, I asked a few questions about MQA decoding. I am sure I was told that the WiiM Mini’s internal DAC decodes Tidal MQA. I am expecting to use the Mini to stream content via wifi, then decode the stream with MQA content and then use the 3.5 mm output to send the decoded analogue signal to my amp. Does the internal DAC on the WiiM mini decode Tidal MQA? I don’t see how to configure that or enable it anywhere.

Thanks!!

It’s been said many times that mqa core first unfold was done via software. If you want to expand more that’s where you need mqa dac. As mqa price goes higher it enable you to do full mqa on spdif like sub 500. Sub 250 you will get mqa rendering. It’s nice to see high number but I doubt your ear can hear difference as many don’t.

 

[Mr Ee]

Hi Pcryan5,

Please tell me more about Qubuz? What is that and it is better than Tidal?

Thanks again!

Craig

Better...?
Horses for courses.
Many don't like Tidal/mqa for various reasons; and some prefer the mqa sound, some don't.
Tidal is arguably easier to use natively due to tidal connect, qobuz not so much, although you can use chromecast to a wiim pro but I think this isn't gapless. Someone will correct me if that's wrong
Qobuz connect is, apparently, in development.

There's normally a free trial period - check it out.

 

[Smartplug]

Hi Pcryan5,

Please tell me more about Qubuz? What is that and it is better than Tidal?

Thanks again!

Craig

Better as in overall functionality or sq? If sq, only you can answer that as user have different preferences. Tidal master are lossy from what they said.

 

[cminnett]

Better as in overall functionality or sq? If sq, only you can answer that as user have different preferences. Tidal master are lossy from what they said.

Sound quality Thanks!