Qobuz & Wiim Pro and Mini

[Brantome]

So, music first. If the music is garage.....the best gear can not rescue.

Yeah "Source First" has been the philosophy of Linn systems for decades perhaps explaining the success of their LP12 turntables

 

[Patricia P]

So, music first. If the music is garage.....the best gear can not rescue.

Garage is garbage, so I agree

 

[Achim1811]

You caught me
When I was a child it was not standard to learn a second language. Even as my mom was a Scot the education was in German only. Sad, but true. But garage is garbage sounds like a good motto

 

[Achim1811]

Yeah "Source First" has been the philosophy of Linn systems for decades perhaps explaining the success of their LP12 turntables

My 1992 Majik is gone, every Majik update was made and I spent bitter tears. But the years and a little tremor and that the Linn went to my son made the decision a little bit easier..

 

[onlyoneme]

I agree that current measurement methodology is insufficient to capture all sonic differences. And because in the end we have to live with the equipment I prefer to like what I hear!

There is no sonic difference to be captured, there is a sound to be captured and further analyzed to show the sonic difference for example. In an unbiased manner which makes it superior to the audibility impressions of average and untrained listeners.

 

[steadyshot]

There is no sonic difference to be captured, there is a sound to be captured and further analyzed to show the sonic difference for example. In an unbiased manner which makes it superior to the audibility impressions of average and untrained listeners.

So following this logic we can group equipment with similar measurements and conclude that the sonic output is similar.

 

[Achim1811]

@onlyoneme
As an untrained and average listener I would recommend you would have a closer look on untrained and average reviewers. To collect the whole stated bs on ASR would fill kilometers of books. My only wish is that people do not think every single posted statement there is proven. One way...not the only way. But some of these reviewers see themself as prophet and as solely owners of the truth. It starts with two different oscilloscopes delivering two different results. Maybe I am obsessed with this issue, but the development of this "scientists" makes me angry.

 

[steadyshot]

So following this logic we can group equipment with similar measurements and conclude that the sonic output is similar.

To add on this. If the answer is yes, do you suggest that for example two amplifiers from different brands , are difficult to tell apart in a blind test?

 

[Patricia P]

I get it, I have been patronised by ASR people too when I talk psychoacoustics (how age and experience can affect how you hear), but (and it’s a big but) amir&co test high end gear that is sold as being capable of high definition, bit perfect reproduction of music which fails miserably.

They show measurable differences, so it’s not an opinion but raised to the status of fact.

But no one should decide what I want to listen to, just as my sister loves her tiny usb speaker and I can’t bear it.

 

[steadyshot]

I get it, I have been patronised by ASR people too when I talk psychoacoustics (how age and experience can affect how you hear), but (and it’s a big but) amir&co test high end gear that is sold as being capable of high definition, bit perfect reproduction of music which fails miserably.

They show measurable differences, so it’s not an opinion but raised to the status of fact.

But no one should decide what I want to listen to, just as my sister loves her tiny usb speaker and I can’t bear it.

Look if all problems are spotted and know how to build based on measurements, then there is no need for different equipment. If it is attainable to get near perfect measurements, assuming that materials and other characteristic properties have effects that are already captured in measurements of the sound output, then there is no reason for so many brands and equipment. You get something that measures well and everything else is not necessary because you cannot get better sound than that.

 

[Achim1811]

For me the scenario to look on a spreadsheet, find similar figures and give the order to my dealers is horrible and boring. Try and error is the quintessence of a hobby and makes my life more interesting. We are today in the unbelievable good situation to have more affordable gear than ever. On the other side the state of the art comes to ridiculous heights. My mentioned Majik together with a vintage amplifier sounded so great. And I am quite sure it would have failed on ASR..

 

[steadyshot]

If we dismiss hearing as totally unreliable, then there is no opposition to the fact that all effects of sound output are fully captured by the current measurements. So no point to discuss with such an absolute position. How you prove that all your measurements capture all sound characteristics without many people hearing and statistically confirming that. But on the other hand I will accept this if I listen to different speakers or amplifiers etc with similar measurements from different brands and the sound impression will be similar.

 

[onlyoneme]

So following this logic we can group equipment with similar measurements and conclude that the sonic output is similar.

Would you conclude about the weight by measuring the height? All depends on the proper measurements choice.
If you capture and compare plenty of materials and the results would be bit perfect to the source then you can conclude that outputs are sonically the same.

 

[onlyoneme]

@onlyoneme
As an untrained and average listener I would recommend you would have a closer look on untrained and average reviewers. To collect the whole stated bs on ASR would fill kilometers of books. My only wish is that people do not think every single posted statement there is proven. One way...not the only way. But some of these reviewers see themself as prophet and as solely owners of the truth. It starts with two different oscilloscopes delivering two different results. Maybe I am obsessed with this issue, but the development of this "scientists" makes me angry.

Every path can deliver blind followers.

 

[onlyoneme]

To add on this. If the answer is yes, do you suggest that for example two amplifiers from different brands , are difficult to tell apart in a blind test?

Can be easy, can be difficult.

 

[onlyoneme]

I get it, I have been patronised by ASR people too when I talk psychoacoustics (how age and experience can affect how you hear), but (and it’s a big but) amir&co test high end gear that is sold as being capable of high definition, bit perfect reproduction of music which fails miserably.

They show measurable differences, so it’s not an opinion but raised to the status of fact.

But no one should decide what I want to listen to, just as my sister loves her tiny usb speaker and I can’t bear it.

It's not about deciding regarding your preferences. When a device X has higher THD level than device B, it tells nothing about which one you would prefer to listen to.

 

[onlyoneme]

Some people prefer to keep audio as esoteric as possible.

 

[steadyshot]

Would you conclude about the weight by measuring the height? All depends on the proper measurements choice.
If you capture and compare plenty of materials and the results would be bit perfect to the source then you can conclude that outputs are sonically the same.

No. But do you suggest that every relevant measurement is out there ready to be used? Are you sure you are not missing anything?

 

[onlyoneme]

No. But do you suggest that every relevant measurement is out there ready to be used? Are you sure you are not missing anything?

I have no idea why you think I'm suggesting such a thing.

 

[Achim1811]

Some people prefer to keep audio as esoteric as possible.

If you would replace esoteric with emotional you get my signature
For me there is nothing more unsexy and unemotional than a graph. But I am sure we are not really far away from each other because I wouldn't expect you chose your time intensive methods without loving music.