wiimamp user
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Thanks for all the good help
Why do CD Transports cost so much?
- Thread starter themrhotwheels
- Start date
because most audiophile transports are scams? they claim to be more precise etc but are no better than a cheap dvd/bluray. even if they had better signal its not a problem connected to a simple modern dac.
pro-ject earlier even claimed most cdplayers cant read more than 10bits:
www.audiosciencereview.com
pro-ject earlier even claimed most cdplayers cant read more than 10bits:
Some "interesting" claims by Pro-Ject re: their new CD transport box...
Actual Redbook CD players have gotten rare, real high-end mechanisms aren‘t even existing anymore. Today, we know that the drive is essential for reading all the 16 bits out of a CD and most CD players have never seen more than 10 bits. The CD medium might have gotten an unfavorable reputation...
www.audiosciencereview.com
Brantome
Moderator
If you read that thread there are lots of comments along the lines of “I can only imagine such nonsense was made up by someone who really has no idea how CD works, it's impressively divorced from reality.”because most audiophile transports are scams? they claim to be more precise etc but are no better than a cheap dvd/bluray. even if they had better signal its not a problem connected to a simple modern dac.
pro-ject earlier even claimed most cdplayers cant read more than 10bits:
Some "interesting" claims by Pro-Ject re: their new CD transport box...
Actual Redbook CD players have gotten rare, real high-end mechanisms aren‘t even existing anymore. Today, we know that the drive is essential for reading all the 16 bits out of a CD and most CD players have never seen more than 10 bits. The CD medium might have gotten an unfavorable reputation...
Steve Woodhouse
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There’s an easy way to test. Buy two cheap transports from different manufacturers and do a controlled, double blind test.
If the transports are full of errors, but different errors due to being from different manufacturers, they should sound very different, too.
If they don’t, there’s your answer.
If the transports are full of errors, but different errors due to being from different manufacturers, they should sound very different, too.
If they don’t, there’s your answer.
Fender
Major Contributor
My dac's one and only reason for living here is the perfect match with my cd transport. As soon as rotating parts are in a device the mechanical build quality is indeed important for me. The fact that the dac fits also with the Pro is the reason the Pro lives here. Of course it has much to do with priorities you set. If cds are not longer important as source and you replaced them complete with streaming it could indeed look expensive.
wiimamp user
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What are you,re thought about this Video?
Fender
Major Contributor
If this question was for me.
Not a single one of all this profile neurotic experts and affiliating influencers gets to my screen ;-)
Not a single one of all this profile neurotic experts and affiliating influencers gets to my screen ;-)
wiimamp user
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Fender
Major Contributor
Jokes beside. Sometimes if a device or a brand shows up in YT I am interested in I give it a look. But in the absolute majority of this stuff all my prejudices are fulfilled.
Just looking if the standards can even go more down ;-)
Just looking if the standards can even go more down ;-)
wiimamp user
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What i think..
When i watch some video,s of people trying to convince me why cd,s are 'important, of still worth it they can,t convince me.
Don,t get me wrong i have lots of cd,s in my home. I also bought recently a cd of a artist that i like.
One thing that can convince me is that i support the artist more than i stream an album of this artist. But i also would be willing to support my favorite artist if they provided me a download in high res quality. Lets say with maybe more qualtiy than a cd(24 bit)
If its about the booklets, lyrics_one of the argument for still buying cd,s_ it can be downloaded too, and if wanted printed yourself. Yes some cd,s have wonderful booklets.., the case itself cant be reproduced in all cases with an printer but havent we all stored these cd,s somewhere and how often do we look in the booklets?
Wy arent the artist not thinking more about limited editions? Let say do more about the artwork( booklet,case..) and make just only 5000 copies of it? Also provide the high res download..
Another argument is they can sound better than streaming..but if a streaming service provide cd quality of even better how is it possible?
Cant imagine it is. And if it is you will have to buy an 'expensive'cd player again for reproducing the sound at is best.
Then again there is that discussion with connecting a relatively cheap cd player to a dac with the optical input. The dac in the cd player does,nt count anymore..
There also an argument that is a private experience. They cant see what you are playing. With streaming its all monitored.Sorry no valid argument for me, because what about being private on you,re pc,smartphone,walking out the door( cameras), banking...where is you,re privacy here?
Or buying the cd itself with you,re bank account. on the internet..
I still hear the same arguments lately on you tube why Blu ray disks are so good comparing it to streaming services. Of course there is a difference here because a BR can produce bitrates( VBR) of 100 Mbps and more. I can undestand this..
But still they are all forgetting that a BR disc of a CD can be ripped to a hard drive. There you have it. Its data stored on a disk. . Lets not forget you can use this for yourself for backing up you,re discs but nobody talk about the fact people download them illegaly.
Yes it illegal.. but that does,nt mean it isn,t happening any more. Because thats the other thing about it all..data can be stored in quality simular to the CD, DVD, Blu ray and it can be used for sharing.
Yes CD where are shared too_ for instance with friends,family_, but now thats on another level with the internet.
I still want to pay... but thinking about phyical media i would appreciate it the industry provided me the data in high quality so i can download it to a HDD. For a decent price. I want to support the artist..
Why can spotify or an artist not provide me a download in high res quality? Yes.. its a streaming service but if there is a demand for higher quality it could be provided through a download. Or on the website of an artist itself.
Yes it can all be used for illegal purposes but thats happing with physical media too.
Think about e books..lots of things making it more difficult for costumers( DRM) but they cant avoid it being shared. And the BR discs are still being ripped to a HDD still when the industry do want to avoid it. Its a divide and rule game but nothing more.
Again dont get me wrong, i am not supporting any illegal activity but i just want to say its happening it would be naive to say it isn,t.
I think if you still provide physical media why arent they thinking about limited editions? As i said before...
Ok vinyl is unique but that a total other discussion because then i have to have a good vinyl player and the way i see this it will cost me lots of money for listening to vinyl when i want a premium sound of this vinyl records.
When i watch some video,s of people trying to convince me why cd,s are 'important, of still worth it they can,t convince me.
Don,t get me wrong i have lots of cd,s in my home. I also bought recently a cd of a artist that i like.
One thing that can convince me is that i support the artist more than i stream an album of this artist. But i also would be willing to support my favorite artist if they provided me a download in high res quality. Lets say with maybe more qualtiy than a cd(24 bit)
If its about the booklets, lyrics_one of the argument for still buying cd,s_ it can be downloaded too, and if wanted printed yourself. Yes some cd,s have wonderful booklets.., the case itself cant be reproduced in all cases with an printer but havent we all stored these cd,s somewhere and how often do we look in the booklets?
Wy arent the artist not thinking more about limited editions? Let say do more about the artwork( booklet,case..) and make just only 5000 copies of it? Also provide the high res download..
Another argument is they can sound better than streaming..but if a streaming service provide cd quality of even better how is it possible?
Cant imagine it is. And if it is you will have to buy an 'expensive'cd player again for reproducing the sound at is best.
Then again there is that discussion with connecting a relatively cheap cd player to a dac with the optical input. The dac in the cd player does,nt count anymore..
There also an argument that is a private experience. They cant see what you are playing. With streaming its all monitored.Sorry no valid argument for me, because what about being private on you,re pc,smartphone,walking out the door( cameras), banking...where is you,re privacy here?
Or buying the cd itself with you,re bank account. on the internet..
I still hear the same arguments lately on you tube why Blu ray disks are so good comparing it to streaming services. Of course there is a difference here because a BR can produce bitrates( VBR) of 100 Mbps and more. I can undestand this..
But still they are all forgetting that a BR disc of a CD can be ripped to a hard drive. There you have it. Its data stored on a disk. . Lets not forget you can use this for yourself for backing up you,re discs but nobody talk about the fact people download them illegaly.
Yes it illegal.. but that does,nt mean it isn,t happening any more. Because thats the other thing about it all..data can be stored in quality simular to the CD, DVD, Blu ray and it can be used for sharing.
Yes CD where are shared too_ for instance with friends,family_, but now thats on another level with the internet.
I still want to pay... but thinking about phyical media i would appreciate it the industry provided me the data in high quality so i can download it to a HDD. For a decent price. I want to support the artist..
Why can spotify or an artist not provide me a download in high res quality? Yes.. its a streaming service but if there is a demand for higher quality it could be provided through a download. Or on the website of an artist itself.
Yes it can all be used for illegal purposes but thats happing with physical media too.
Think about e books..lots of things making it more difficult for costumers( DRM) but they cant avoid it being shared. And the BR discs are still being ripped to a HDD still when the industry do want to avoid it. Its a divide and rule game but nothing more.
Again dont get me wrong, i am not supporting any illegal activity but i just want to say its happening it would be naive to say it isn,t.
I think if you still provide physical media why arent they thinking about limited editions? As i said before...
Ok vinyl is unique but that a total other discussion because then i have to have a good vinyl player and the way i see this it will cost me lots of money for listening to vinyl when i want a premium sound of this vinyl records.
Last edited:
The same paragraph was subsequently reworded and now reads "Actual Redbook CD players have gotten rare, real high-end mechanisms aren‘t even existing anymore. Today, we know that the drive is essential for accurately reading CDs. The mechanics in many drives struggle to correctly read CDs and rely on audio interpolation to make it work, that often has a negativ impacting on the sound quality. The CD medium might have gotten an unfavorable reputation as a result, which is why it is time to create a perfect, top-class CD transport again."If you read that thread there are lots of comments along the lines of “I can only imagine such nonsense was made up by someone who really has no idea how CD works, it's impressively divorced from reality.”
It looks like someone at Pro-Ject found the lost 6 bits. 101101
Fender
Major Contributor
The most of what you wrote I would sign.
But there are others which think they found the only truth and want to educate others who do not ask for that. And very often they mention things they never owned but read about.
I am happy with my devices. Even if Pro-Ject is the company what found the missing bits ;-)
wiimamp user
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- Jan 12, 2024
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- 533
I can understand what you mean.
In my experience, a high quality CD Transport, not necessarily expensive one, can make a significant difference in sound quality. The key is in the chain; namely, Transport, Clock, DAC. Personally, I use a Pro Audio CD Transport that has I/O for Clock, AES/EBU, Coax, Optical, XLR Analogue and more. It also has its own DAC and so comparing is quite revealing! To be fair and because of its Pro Audio pedigree, I configure my preamp to attenuate to Consumer Grade line level to compare with sources such as the WiiM.
In practically all cases, feeding my CD Transport into any one of my DACs including the WiiM almost always sounds better than any other digital source. Those sources include streaming from PC/USB, HDD, wireless to name a few. As to why that is, I am at a loss. After all, digital is digital; or is it?! In real world use, for whatever reason, Redbook CD in pure two channel stereo, properly configured as mentioned above, rivals just about anything I have heard. A three dimensional sound stage with wide and deep imaging and depth is just astonishing to experience. The only other medium that may sometimes rival an excellent digital rig is, yes you guessed it, vinyl record playback. However, that kind of rig also has to be properly configured to yield similar astonishing results. But it is achievable, albeit probably with bit more expense!
In practically all cases, feeding my CD Transport into any one of my DACs including the WiiM almost always sounds better than any other digital source. Those sources include streaming from PC/USB, HDD, wireless to name a few. As to why that is, I am at a loss. After all, digital is digital; or is it?! In real world use, for whatever reason, Redbook CD in pure two channel stereo, properly configured as mentioned above, rivals just about anything I have heard. A three dimensional sound stage with wide and deep imaging and depth is just astonishing to experience. The only other medium that may sometimes rival an excellent digital rig is, yes you guessed it, vinyl record playback. However, that kind of rig also has to be properly configured to yield similar astonishing results. But it is achievable, albeit probably with bit more expense!
What do you recommend for a high quality inexpensive CD transport?
eByGum
Active member
I posed the same question recently (to myself) as they all seemed so expensive for what they are. Cambridge Audio seemed cheapest of known brands. I don't believe all Youtubers are biased and saying the right thing for kickbacks...some of them will be pretty straight I'm sure and multiple of them suggested there are differences and cheapo players will disappoint.
I assumed the only answer to the high cost question is "cos they can".
I ended up finding a Brennan Helix on Amazon for 209 bucks that suits my budget and only occasional need for a CD player. Brennan are a specialist UK outfit that I believe makes quality devices. They are selling these off cheap as there was a manufacturing error that made 3.5 jack output mono. I use optical out to the WiiM though so everything ok for my use. Sounds good to my ears, actually better than expected.
I assumed the only answer to the high cost question is "cos they can".
I ended up finding a Brennan Helix on Amazon for 209 bucks that suits my budget and only occasional need for a CD player. Brennan are a specialist UK outfit that I believe makes quality devices. They are selling these off cheap as there was a manufacturing error that made 3.5 jack output mono. I use optical out to the WiiM though so everything ok for my use. Sounds good to my ears, actually better than expected.
