As I understand it, if you leave the volume fixed and do not use the EQ, the Wiim Pro and Mini pass the music on bitperfect. My question is > If you do use volume control or EQ, how much fidelity do you lose? If you start with a 24/192 file, what exactly does the Wiim pass on if you use volume control?
Sound quality when using EQ or Volume Control
- Thread starter Erik
- Start date
You can find here what happens with distortions when volume changes:
audiosciencereview.com
And how it can look like when EQ is on:
audiosciencereview.com
WiiM Pro Streamer
what is the sample rate? 44.1, 48, 96, 192? What cable are you using for the coaxial? Expecially if you are at the higher end of sample rates, you should be using digital audio coax cable not analogue audio RCA. Yes it is an analog cable and not digital, the reason is that my cable does not...
audiosciencereview.com
And how it can look like when EQ is on:
WiiM Pro Streamer
I use it to skip the tracks I am tired of listening to. Click, click, click, until something I like pops up. I also use it to adjust volume. My playlist consists of mixed tracks, so the volume discrepency is hopeless. Wiim does not support volume leveling, so I need to change volume often. It's...
audiosciencereview.com
I'm a bit embarrassed to say that I don't understand most of those threads - especially the graphs. I have a PS Audio Sprout that I had been bluetoothing music to. So I bought the Wiim Pro to get higher fidelity by using wifi.You can find here what happens with distortions when volume changes:
WiiM Pro Streamer
what is the sample rate? 44.1, 48, 96, 192? What cable are you using for the coaxial? Expecially if you are at the higher end of sample rates, you should be using digital audio coax cable not analogue audio RCA. Yes it is an analog cable and not digital, the reason is that my cable does not...
And how it can look like when EQ is on:
WiiM Pro Streamer
I use it to skip the tracks I am tired of listening to. Click, click, click, until something I like pops up. I also use it to adjust volume. My playlist consists of mixed tracks, so the volume discrepency is hopeless. Wiim does not support volume leveling, so I need to change volume often. It's...
So I'm wondering if I need a preamp with a remote or an app to get volume control so that I don't lose the fidelity that I bought the Wiim Pro to get, if that makes sense.
Or is using the volume control on Wiim app the way to go?
Well, if the details aren't what you're looking for, I'll try just to explain. The EQ mode can bring high level of distortions if output level is high, considering here EQ band gain levels, the overall digital volume level and audio peak levels.
The digital volume control works fine, it doesn't affect the quality too much. Also it doesn't downsample the content leaving it at the original sample rate.
Thanks so much for that explanation.
I have another question about the volume control. If you enable volume control, does the signal then go through the DAC in the Wiim? Right now, I coax out to a PS Audio Sprout to use the Dac in that unit.
The signal goes through the internal DAC only if you select line out (analog) output. Otherwise it goes directly to the external DAC over one of the digital outputs.
WiiM's volume control works in both modes.
Much appreciated! So it sounds like I don't have any need to buy a preamp to get volume control. The Wiim app volume control won't cost me much in terms of fidelity.
The last thing I have to figure out then is if it's worth it to get a more powerful amp. I have the first model of the PS Audio Sprout amp that puts out 32 watts into 8 ohms, and I use it to drive a pair of JBL L100T speakers that I restored.
With the volume turned up to 50% on the Sprout, it's as loud as I'd ever want it to be in our listening space. And it sounds good.
But I keep hearing and reading that if I bought a more powerful amp, the music would sound even better, though I don't understand exactly how. I don't hear any distortion right now with the volume at 50%.
So I identified the Schiit Vidar 2 as a nice amp to upgrade to. Still can't figure out if it would give me an even better sound though.
The last thing I have to figure out then is if it's worth it to get a more powerful amp. I have the first model of the PS Audio Sprout amp that puts out 32 watts into 8 ohms, and I use it to drive a pair of JBL L100T speakers that I restored.
With the volume turned up to 50% on the Sprout, it's as loud as I'd ever want it to be in our listening space. And it sounds good.
But I keep hearing and reading that if I bought a more powerful amp, the music would sound even better, though I don't understand exactly how. I don't hear any distortion right now with the volume at 50%.
So I identified the Schiit Vidar 2 as a nice amp to upgrade to. Still can't figure out if it would give me an even better sound though.
Last edited:
Mr Ee
Major Contributor
Seems you're aware that the Sprout is an integrated amp with dac; the Vidar is a power amp.
What was your intention on getting sound from the wiim to the speakers?
Using the wiim's internal dac and line out?
Given one of your concerns was loss of fidelity you may want to see how the wiim's dac / analog out sounds compared to using the dac in the Sprout. It's fair to say that the dac / analog section of the wiim is nowhere near as highly praised as the digital section...
"sounds like I don't have any need to buy a preamp to get volume control".
What do you intend to do with the Sprout? Could you use the Sprout as a preamp, i.e. wiim (fixed volume) digital out into Sprout, then analog out into a power amp?
If you were to do that you'd need the wiim pro, for coax out.
What was your intention on getting sound from the wiim to the speakers?
Using the wiim's internal dac and line out?
Given one of your concerns was loss of fidelity you may want to see how the wiim's dac / analog out sounds compared to using the dac in the Sprout. It's fair to say that the dac / analog section of the wiim is nowhere near as highly praised as the digital section...
"sounds like I don't have any need to buy a preamp to get volume control".
What do you intend to do with the Sprout? Could you use the Sprout as a preamp, i.e. wiim (fixed volume) digital out into Sprout, then analog out into a power amp?
If you were to do that you'd need the wiim pro, for coax out.
Surely if he were to use the Sprout as a preamp with WiiM in fixed volume mode he'd lose any kind of volume control? The line out on the Sprout will be just that.
The specs on the Sprout suggest that it is a very competent Integrated Amp. I'd use WiiM in fixed volume mode with no EQ connected to one of its digital inputs and control volume with the Sprout and forget about any further expenditure at this stage.
I had originally planned to leave the volume fixed on the Wiim Pro just to get bitperfect pass through, and use the volume control on the Sprout. The only issue with doing that way is that I have to get up and cross the room to physically turn the volume knob on the Sprout. It's certainly doable, but once you get used to controlling the volume from the listening position, it's kind of annoying. I've been more aware of how often I need to adjust the volume when jumping from album to album.
As far as the Schiit Vidar 2 goes, the only reason that I've been thinking about that is because some folks suggest that the extra watts might make the music (particularly the bass) sound better at the exact same volume I'm listening to it now using the Sprout. Others tend to disagree.
Does anyone here have any thoughts on that? Will a 100 watt into 8 ohms Class A/B amp sound better at moderate volume than the Sprout's 32 watts into 8 ohms Class D amp?
As far as the Schiit Vidar 2 goes, the only reason that I've been thinking about that is because some folks suggest that the extra watts might make the music (particularly the bass) sound better at the exact same volume I'm listening to it now using the Sprout. Others tend to disagree.
Does anyone here have any thoughts on that? Will a 100 watt into 8 ohms Class A/B amp sound better at moderate volume than the Sprout's 32 watts into 8 ohms Class D amp?
Mr Ee
Major Contributor
I didn't look into it much, but I would have thought the sprout's analog out would be variable, not fixed. Partly why I wrote "*could* you use the sprout as a preamp...".
Anyway, as Erik says, remote control volume is almost essential!
Disagreement in the audio community? How unusual.
I'm fearful of commenting in case I get roasted...
"..the extra watts might make the music ... sound better"
The general consensus, as I see it, (and note that this is also a general statement!) is that a more powerful amp is often better equiped to deal with sustained power draw, e.g. lots of bass, and large dynamic changes. It may also have better 'control' over the speakers, particularly the woofers, meaning it's better able to start/stop them quickly, resulting in 'tighter' bass.
It's also suggested that such an amp, at lower listening levels, is able to more effortlessly drive the speakers, giving an overall fuller sound at low listening levels.
There are obviously exceptions and nuances to what I've written.
Tube amps are generally quite low in pure wattage output, but can sound fantastic and easily drive speakers to loud levels.
Watts only don't tell the whole story.
I'm sure you've done lots of your own reading, but seeing as you have a sprout, let me point you at a very short PS audio article on headroom.
As for will a 100w a/b amp sound better than a 32w d amp... I'm not sure anyone but you can answer that!
I'd hate to say yes, then you buy one and not like it, and vise versa; especially never having heard either!
Don't know where in the world you are, but schiit do home trials for 5% restocking I believe. Might be worth a shot.
Although your remote volume requirement might need you to rethink the vidar.
D6jg - "forget about any further expenditure at this stage." Where's the fun in that?!!!
Anyway, as Erik says, remote control volume is almost essential!
Disagreement in the audio community? How unusual.
I'm fearful of commenting in case I get roasted...
"..the extra watts might make the music ... sound better"
The general consensus, as I see it, (and note that this is also a general statement!) is that a more powerful amp is often better equiped to deal with sustained power draw, e.g. lots of bass, and large dynamic changes. It may also have better 'control' over the speakers, particularly the woofers, meaning it's better able to start/stop them quickly, resulting in 'tighter' bass.
It's also suggested that such an amp, at lower listening levels, is able to more effortlessly drive the speakers, giving an overall fuller sound at low listening levels.
There are obviously exceptions and nuances to what I've written.
Tube amps are generally quite low in pure wattage output, but can sound fantastic and easily drive speakers to loud levels.
Watts only don't tell the whole story.
I'm sure you've done lots of your own reading, but seeing as you have a sprout, let me point you at a very short PS audio article on headroom.
As for will a 100w a/b amp sound better than a 32w d amp... I'm not sure anyone but you can answer that!
I'd hate to say yes, then you buy one and not like it, and vise versa; especially never having heard either!
Don't know where in the world you are, but schiit do home trials for 5% restocking I believe. Might be worth a shot.
Although your remote volume requirement might need you to rethink the vidar.
D6jg - "forget about any further expenditure at this stage." Where's the fun in that?!!!
Every extra 10dB needs 10x the amplifier power, so my 81db (1W/1m) speakers need a powerful amp to get them to play loud. Mine is rated at 400+Wrms/4Ohms and gets almost too hot to touch after 40mins at high SPL. For more normal sensitivity around 90dB, a 50W amp should suffice.
Mr Ee
Major Contributor
81db !!!
That'd take some power for sure.
Yeah, crazy low. My speakers at 300w (depending on the room and placement) should produce an SPL of just over 100dB at 4m. (My phone's dB meter says less but it could be inaccurate.) Speakers with an efficiency of 91dB should hit over 102dB with just 50W. Anyway, you summed it up very well. I just thought I'd add a small caveat (small because low efficiency speakers like mine are probably pretty rare)
Yanto
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2023
- Messages
- 139
Apologies for silly question here. Is this post saying that with volume control maxed and then controlled by the amplifier in your system, if the eq in the WiiM app is used, then resolution is reduced?
I have volume maxed, and have selected ‘Classical’ on the eq. My amp’s display tells me I still get the resolution of the source file being sent from Amazon Music. Eg Amazon file says 24/96, and as playback commences my amp displays the sand 24/96. Thanks
I have volume maxed, and have selected ‘Classical’ on the eq. My amp’s display tells me I still get the resolution of the source file being sent from Amazon Music. Eg Amazon file says 24/96, and as playback commences my amp displays the sand 24/96. Thanks
Brantome
Moderator
Resolution isn’t changed by EQ
Yanto
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2023
- Messages
- 139
Thanks, that confirms my (very little) experience.
Maybe not resolution, but: “Obviously, you do not want to use EQ at fixed volume, unless 57dB SINAD (before D/A conversion) is something you are looking for... It becomes way cleaner with volume is unlocked, the lowered at about 95%. This issue could be easily fixed by firmware, by setting max volume about 1dBFS down”
WiiM Pro - Review & Measurements (Streamer)
WiiM Pro - Review & Measurements Hey folks, It is time for my first review of 2023... This one is about a complete objective analysis of the new WiiM Pro streamer. The aforementioned has been recently announced, back in November 2022, and I can see quite a strong hype around it since. That...
www.audiosciencereview.com
Yanto
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2023
- Messages
- 139
So if using fixed volume you say it’s best to turn off the eq? Does this still stand if I’m using the DAC in my amp and not inside the WiiM Pro?Maybe not resolution, but: “Obviously, you do not want to use EQ at fixed volume, unless 57dB SINAD (before D/A conversion) is something you are looking for... It becomes way cleaner with volume is unlocked, the lowered at about 95%. This issue could be easily fixed by firmware, by setting max volume about 1dBFS down”
WiiM Pro - Review & Measurements (Streamer)
WiiM Pro - Review & Measurements Hey folks, It is time for my first review of 2023... This one is about a complete objective analysis of the new WiiM Pro streamer. The aforementioned has been recently announced, back in November 2022, and I can see quite a strong hype around it since. That...
