Yamaha TSR-700 Pre-Out Way too Low to Hear!

[Mr Ee]

Amazon sells line level booster but that’s another chain on the line that could add distortion.

It could, but in my case it's just so I can choose to play tv / movies to the big speakers .
Still sounds better going through the preamp to the good hifi than through the bookshelves attached to the avr (which are more than adequate for watching yet another big bang or friends rerun).

 

[Mr Ee]

I think I'll try to talk to wiim or Yamaha directly next..

tbh, this is quite normal / common.
At one point I had the marantz avr pre out into a marantz power amp.
Still too quiet - the power amp gain was just too little for the signal the avr put out.
As mentioned, same issue into my hegel with its input set to 'power amp' mode, i.e. full volume gain.
Hence the active pre amp.

 

[Wiimer]

tbh, this is quite normal / common.
At one point I had the marantz avr pre out into a marantz power amp.
Still too quiet - the power amp gain was just too little for the signal the avr put out.
As mentioned, same issue into my hegel with its input set to 'power amp' mode, i.e. full volume gain.
Hence the active pre amp.

@Mr Ee,
Sorry if this is a stupid question.
I remember seeing somewhere that the line input of the WiiM amp is 2V. If the AVR pre-out is 2V, is there any effect of adding a booster?

 

[harkpabst]

@Mr Ee,
Sorry if this is a stupid question.
I remember seeing somewhere that the line input of the WiiM amp is 2V. If the AVR pre-out is 2V, is there any effect of adding a booster?

Yes, potentially there is. It's actually not about the difference in wattage between the Yamaha and the WiiM. This is not important in this case (until reaching the power limits, of course).

It's a problem of the previous "dumb" amplifier's gain being higher than that of the WiiM Amp. It depends on volume control settings. A pre-amp could.make up for that, even if introducing one more source of distortion.

@craigj265, what amp have you been using previously and how was the volume control usually set?

If you want remotely similar levels from the WiiM and the Yamaha, you will have to set the WiiM to (up to) 100% volume. Switching to one of the WiiM's other inputs like WiFi at 100% might not be a good idea then (remember the warning in the Yamaha manual, brought up.by @Doublej ). Luckily, the WiiM Amp does allow independent control of volume per source, so it will remember the volume for line-in being 100%, but maybe 25% for WiFi or USB since the latest update of firmware and app. Relying on that alone wilould still make me feel a little uncomfortable.

Did you manage to find the pre-out level setting in the Yamaha's menu? Turning it up to +6 dB will be essential.

I'm sure that none of your devices is defective.

 

[Wiimer]

Yes, potentially there is. It's actually not about the difference in wattage between the Yamaha and the WiiM. This is not important in this case (until reaching the power limits, of course).

Thank you. I'm obviously under-educated.

Did you manage to find the pre-out level setting in the Yamaha's menu? Turning it up to +6 dB will be essential.

I'm sure that none of your devices is defective.

I've never seen a pre-out level setting on my Yamaha AVR (RX-A4A, RX-A780). Is it a feature that is only available on high-end models?

 

[harkpabst]

I've never seen a pre-out level setting on my Yamaha AVR (RX-A4A, RX-A780). Is it a feature that is only available on high-end models?

I don't even own an AVR myself. But I know from other more AVR oriented forums that this is a rather common feature. Surprisingly many people are integrating high quality stereo amps with their AVR, so the amp will be used for two channel playback and also power the front speakers (and potentially subwoofers) in HT mode. With the amp's line-in set to HT mode (read: always 100% volume setting) you need level matching between front speakers and the rest, depending on speaker sensitivity, the amp's input sensitivity and the AVR's pre-out level. It's all a matter of gain structure.

Finally, @Smartplug explicitly said he owns the TSR-700, too, and the setting ist there.

 

[Wiimer]

I don't even own an AVR myself. But I know from other more AVR oriented forums that this is a rather common feature. Surprisingly many people are integrating high quality stereo amps with their AVR, so the amp will be used for two channel playback and also power the front speakers (and potentially subwoofers) in HT mode. With the amp's line-in set to HT mode (read: always 100% volume setting) you need level matching between front speakers and the rest, depending on speaker sensitivity, the amp's input sensitivity and the AVR's pre-out level. It's all a matter of gain structure.

Finally, @Smartplug explicitly said he owns the TSR-700, too, and the setting ist there.

Yes, there is an option called "Input Level Correction". This is a function that reduces the volume difference between inputs. I don't think it's a feature that increases the output of the pre-out.

 

[harkpabst]

Yes, there is an option called "Input Level Correction". This is a function that reduces the volume difference between inputs. I don't think it's a feature that increases the output of the pre-out.

That's a different setting, indeed, useful for different scenarios.

Having had just a quick glimpse at the RX-A4A I couldn't find a pre-out setting for this model, either.

 

[Mr Ee]

@Mr Ee,
Sorry if this is a stupid question.
I remember seeing somewhere that the line input of the WiiM amp is 2V. If the AVR pre-out is 2V, is there any effect of adding a booster?

Fortunately, someone more knowlegeble than me replied already

 

[Smartplug]

Only way to fix this low level out by using line level booster that you can get from Amazon. Even using 1k watt external amp will not make use of its rated power due to low voltage from pre out.

 

[Doublej]

If my memory is correct, when this platform first came out, Audioholics or Audio Science Review mentioned something about the output voltage being 1V instead of 2V and that Yamaha said they would be addressing this in a firmware update.

So if you don't have the latest firmware, consider installing it, just to eliminate the firmware variable from the situation.