Bluetooth Stutter

[Shozzer]

Morning All,

New WiiM Pro owner as of last week. Works flawlessly over Wi-Fi when connected to my Denon amplifier via Line Out and also Optical Out (Coax is a no go as my current connectors don't fit onto the WiiM!) but when connecting to Bluetooth devices - Dali Katch, Sony Headphones and a cheap headband (for use when going to sleep - not a good look!) the sound stutters badly. Have other users had similar problems and were they able to overcome them? The experience varies. Sometimes when the stutter starts, pausing a few seconds allows the sound to buffer and then normal playback is possible. Sometimes it then becomes necessary to repeat the process if the stutter starts again.

The problem occurs whether streaming from LMS or Qobuz via WiiM and happens irrespective of Wi-Fi or Ethernet connection. A device reset did partly improve the situation but essentially Bluetooth is unusable which is a shame as that was the main reason for getting the WiiM. I have submitted a ticket to WiiM but wondered if others had similar experiences they could share.

Thanks for reading.

Steve

 

[wiimamp user]

From memory, I think all WiiM models only support SBC/AAC. I don’t recall APTX being included tbh

I haven't tried this with either my WiiM Mini or Pro but I think I am correct in saying that the Mini supports Bluetooth 5.2 (but only SBC and AAC codec) whereas the Pro only has Bluetooth 5.1 (but also includes AptX amongst other additional codecs).
d6jg

https://forums.slimdevices.com/foru...are/1664040-wiim-pro-and-bluetooth-headphones

Maybe the information of d6jg isn,t correct then..he talks about the pro supports APTX.

 

[wiimamp user]

A brand like Jabra in their more expensive models( such as the Jabra Elite 7 pro) they dont use APTX codecs anymore.
Again the codecs isnt all that counts..
But the Jabra,s i have never any issues with lagging or stuttering.
Maybe the reason a brand like Jabra doesn,t use APTX because they have to pay. Could this be a reason WIIM doesn,t use it?
But why( if so) on the Pro and not the AMP?

Maybe the info wasn,t right and the Pro uses_ as the AMP_ SBC and AAC.
But still i ask myself can WIIM offer APTX without a qualcomm CPU or have they have to pay lots of money to Qualcomm?
LDAC is another thing ..
https://www.androidpolice.com/qualcomm-aptx-hd-open-source/#:~:text=With these encoders now integrated,license, and free to use.
Codec isnt all but if they can help with issues of stuttering why doesnt WIIM offer these codecs i ask myself..

But ok im gonna use an bleutooth transmitter. Im am very pleased with the amp and maybe BT isn,t that important to WIIM i dont know..

 

[Shozzer]

I'm afraid it leaves me feeling a bit short-changed. Whilst BT is not perfect , I would expect that in this day and age it should be able to work.

I understood that all devices use SBC as a minimum and select the best codec that is available.

I am not happy with the idea of purchasing additional equipment to work alongside something that should be able to do the job. What attracted me to WiiM was the integration with LMS. Maybe there is a fix around the corner in a new FW update but it would be good to know how seriously this issue is being taken by the developers. If the problem cannot be fixed then potential customers ought to be alerted to the fact.

Steve

A brand like Jabra in their more expensive models( such as the Jabra Elite 7 pro) they dont use APTX codecs anymore.
Again the codecs isnt all that counts..
But the Jabra,s i have never any issues with lagging or stuttering.
Maybe the reason a brand like Jabra doesn,t use APTX because they have to pay. Could this be a reason WIIM doesn,t use it?
But why( if so) on the Pro and not the AMP?

Maybe the info wasn,t right and the Pro uses_ as the AMP_ SBC and AAC.
But still i ask myself can WIIM offer APTX without a qualcomm CPU or have they have to pay lots of money to Qualcomm?
LDAC is another thing ..
https://www.androidpolice.com/qualcomm-aptx-hd-open-source/#:~:text=With these encoders now integrated,license, and free to use.
Codec isnt all but if they can help with issues of stuttering why doesnt WIIM offer these codecs i ask myself..

But ok im gonna use an bleutooth transmitter. Im am very pleased with the amp and maybe BT isn,t that important to WIIM i dont know..

 

[wiimamp user]

@Steve,

I can understand what you are saying.
I think we have to have some patience..WIIM support reacted in this thread by saying they did updated the subject on BT Issus earlier but for now it didn't solve our problems.
I am willing to invest but I agree the BT option has to function on the Wiim amp.
Hopefully they will pick it up and the problems can be solved.
Again I have never had any issues with any devices with my Dali and one shouldn't except it with the wiim amp..
Only thing I can hope they can solve it with an update.
I ask myself the ones who contacted WIIM through the app what they can see in the logs ??

I am very pleased with the amp no doubt still I hope WIIM can tell us more about the customers who are experiencing this BT issues.

 

[Szczypior]

Just got Technics A800 headset and unfortunately I am facing stuttering issue on Pro Plus when trying to use BT to transmit sound to the mentioned headphones.

- I have 5GHz only networking activated
- I've tried changing my 2.4GHz channels on router to different channel - no success
- I've tried Lenovo bone-conducting headset that I use for mountain biking - no issues with them, they work fine from what I can hear
- changing the volume as advised in this topic does not do solve the issue
- changing the fade-in fade-out does not solve the issue

What I noticed:
- the distortion that appears has literally same interval all the time, in my case it's like over 1 second every 3 seconds or so
- the sound source doesn't matter, tried all: network (Tidal Connect and internet radio), CD transport via fiber, turntable via RCA and phono amplifier
- I've tried all the settings in the headset on Android App, even turning off multipoint does not fix the issue. Even more: setting the 'Connection setting -> Connection priority (uses SBC codec only) made it even worse making the distortion/stutter constant
- distance between headset and Wiim Pro Plus does not matter at all

I'm using newest firmware, literally updated Wiim today. Unfortunately I cannot use external BT TX as the only out I have free is optical one which will be connected to main amplifier in the future that unfortunately does not have BT (I am saving for SU-G700M2) and in fact I wanted Wiim to cover streaming and BT transmission functions for both CD via optical and analog which would be redirected from amplifier back to Wiim due to turntable being connected to the G700 preamp.

I will still check the Xiaomi earbuds later on, going to try to change power supply of Wiim and even will try different power socket if I manage to find one that is in different circuit.

EDIT: Xiaomi Mi True Wireless Headphones work flawlessly..

 

[wiimamp user]

What would happen if you use the HDMI Arc connection and then transfering the audio via BT.?
I will test it what happens..
Ok it's the audio from the TV for instance when watching TV, Netflix but I want to test what happens.

Can someone else please test when playing a cd ( optical in) .. connecting to the Amp via BT..
Still stuttering?

 

[Shozzer]

The whole thing is extremely frustrating, made worse by the (seemingly) lack of engagement by WiiM to resolve the issue. As each FW update comes along, hopes are raised and then dashed when the issue is not resolved. Continuing development of the devices is great, but I would have thought that the priority should be in either fixing existing issues once and for all, or just admitting that the problem cannot be resolved. Decisions can then be made whether to retain the equipment or ditch it for another solution - which would be a shame as there are many positives to the product range.

 

[wiimamp user]

The whole thing is extremely frustrating, made worse by the (seemingly) lack of engagement by WiiM to resolve the issue. As each FW update comes along, hopes are raised and then dashed when the issue is not resolved. Continuing development of the devices is great, but I would have thought that the priority should be in either fixing existing issues once and for all, or just admitting that the problem cannot be resolved. Decisions can then be made whether to retain the equipment or ditch it for another solution - which would be a shame as there are many positives to the product range.

Did you contact WIIM within the app?

 

[Shozzer]

Yes, I have several open tickets, some which date back to last year.

Steve

Did you contact WIIM within the app?

 

[WiiM Support]

Yes, I have several open tickets, some which date back to last year.

Steve

Hi Shozzer, Szczypior

Could you kindly provide your ticket numbers? I'll ensure to expedite the follow-up with our team. Additionally, if you could share the brand and model of your headset, we'd appreciate the opportunity to replicate the issue in our lab. Thank you for your continued patience and support.

 

[Shozzer]

Hi, thanks for your reply. My ticket numbers are:

Amp #497060
Stutter / Trill #496924
BT Stutter / Trill #496923
Bluetooth Stutter #496739
Bluetooth Stutter #495506
Bluetooth Output #492377

The various devices in use are detailed within the tickets. If there is any specific testing you would like me to assist with then I would be very happy to help. The ‘Stutter’ and the ‘Trill’ seem to be two different issues.

Steve

Hi Shozzer, Szczypior

Could you kindly provide your ticket numbers? I'll ensure to expedite the follow-up with our team. Additionally, if you could share the brand and model of your headset, we'd appreciate the opportunity to replicate the issue in our lab. Thank you for your continued patience and support.

 

[onix]

Just got Technics A800 headset and unfortunately I am facing stuttering issue on Pro Plus when trying to use BT to transmit sound to the mentioned headphones.

- I have 5GHz only networking activated
- I've tried changing my 2.4GHz channels on router to different channel - no success
- I've tried Lenovo bone-conducting headset that I use for mountain biking - no issues with them, they work fine from what I can hear
- changing the volume as advised in this topic does not do solve the issue
- changing the fade-in fade-out does not solve the issue

What I noticed:
- the distortion that appears has literally same interval all the time, in my case it's like over 1 second every 3 seconds or so
- the sound source doesn't matter, tried all: network (Tidal Connect and internet radio), CD transport via fiber, turntable via RCA and phono amplifier
- I've tried all the settings in the headset on Android App, even turning off multipoint does not fix the issue. Even more: setting the 'Connection setting -> Connection priority (uses SBC codec only) made it even worse making the distortion/stutter constant
- distance between headset and Wiim Pro Plus does not matter at all

I'm using newest firmware, literally updated Wiim today. Unfortunately I cannot use external BT TX as the only out I have free is optical one which will be connected to main amplifier in the future that unfortunately does not have BT (I am saving for SU-G700M2) and in fact I wanted Wiim to cover streaming and BT transmission functions for both CD via optical and analog which would be redirected from amplifier back to Wiim due to turntable being connected to the G700 preamp.

I will still check the Xiaomi earbuds later on, going to try to change power supply of Wiim and even will try different power socket if I manage to find one that is in different circuit.

EDIT: Xiaomi Mi True Wireless Headphones work flawlessly..

Just got Technics A800 headset and unfortunately I am facing stuttering issue on Pro Plus when trying to use BT to transmit sound to the mentioned headphones.

- I have 5GHz only networking activated
- I've tried changing my 2.4GHz channels on router to different channel - no success
- I've tried Lenovo bone-conducting headset that I use for mountain biking - no issues with them, they work fine from what I can hear
- changing the volume as advised in this topic does not do solve the issue
- changing the fade-in fade-out does not solve the issue

What I noticed:
- the distortion that appears has literally same interval all the time, in my case it's like over 1 second every 3 seconds or so
- the sound source doesn't matter, tried all: network (Tidal Connect and internet radio), CD transport via fiber, turntable via RCA and phono amplifier
- I've tried all the settings in the headset on Android App, even turning off multipoint does not fix the issue. Even more: setting the 'Connection setting -> Connection priority (uses SBC codec only) made it even worse making the distortion/stutter constant
- distance between headset and Wiim Pro Plus does not matter at all

I'm using newest firmware, literally updated Wiim today. Unfortunately I cannot use external BT TX as the only out I have free is optical one which will be connected to main amplifier in the future that unfortunately does not have BT (I am saving for SU-G700M2) and in fact I wanted Wiim to cover streaming and BT transmission functions for both CD via optical and analog which would be redirected from amplifier back to Wiim due to turntable being connected to the G700 preamp.When I found slutter on my brand new EAH-60Z earphons,

I will still check the Xiaomi earbuds later on, going to try to change power supply of Wiim and even will try different power socket if I manage to find one that is in different circuit.
.
EDIT: Xiaomi Mi True Wireless Headphones work flawlessly..

Just got Technics A800 headset and unfortunately I am facing stuttering issue on Pro Plus when trying to use BT to transmit sound to the mentioned headphones.

- I have 5GHz only networking activated
- I've tried changing my 2.4GHz channels on router to different channel - no success
- I've tried Lenovo bone-conducting headset that I use for mountain biking - no issues with them, they work fine from what I can hear
- changing the volume as advised in this topic does not do solve the issue
- changing the fade-in fade-out does not solve the issue

What I noticed:
- the distortion that appears has literally same interval all the time, in my case it's like over 1 second every 3 seconds or so
- the sound source doesn't matter, tried all: network (Tidal Connect and internet radio), CD transport via fiber, turntable via RCA and phono amplifier
- I've tried all the settings in the headset on Android App, even turning off multipoint does not fix the issue. Even more: setting the 'Connection setting -> Connection priority (uses SBC codec only) made it even worse making the distortion/stutter constant
- distance between headset and Wiim Pro Plus does not matter at all

I'm using newest firmware, literally updated Wiim today. Unfortunately I cannot use external BT TX as the only out I have free is optical one which will be connected to main amplifier in the future that unfortunately does not have BT (I am saving for SU-G700M2) and in fact I wanted Wiim to cover streaming and BT transmission functions for both CD via optical and analog which would be redirected from amplifier back to Wiim due to turntable being connected to the G700 preamp.

I will still check the Xiaomi earbuds later on, going to try to change power supply of Wiim and even will try different power socket if I manage to find one that is in different circuit.

EDIT: Xiaomi Mi True Wireless Headphones work flawlessly..

Hello Szczypior

Your case seems to be quite same as mine. First I claimed it to Technics Service because the level of distortion was unacceptabl when I bought brand new EAH-AZ60 earphones. Then they were proactively and swiftly reproduced the symptom at their lab by buying new Wiim Pro by themself. The analysis result was, they said, due to irregular BT data transmission from Wiim. So that they denied to tweak firmware to mask the noisy data on receiver side. Now I can find several other tickets raised for the issue too, so I am waiting for further research being done by Wiim Team.

 

[wiimamp user]

I think a good question could be:
How is it possible one BT device works well ( Lenovo) and the other does not( Technics).
If it where irregular BT data why the Lenovo isn't affected at all ..that's the question I would say.
Or lets say a Jabra having no issues a Dali has.

 

[wiimamp user]

I've tested listening to my Daliio6 with HDMI arc output.
Listening to netflix, YouTube,TV.
Very clean sound..and..NO stuttering at all!

@Szczypior has no HDMI Arc.
Can you test it with a cd player on the optical in output?
@Shozzer .
Can you test it on the HDMI Arc output? Listening to TV, YouTube, netflix..?

Again..now I have no stuttering at all.Clean crisp sound..with no issues.
So it can't be due to irregular BT data I would say.


I'm going to test now streaming music..
Give me a moment please..

Update:

With music streaming there is stuttering immediately.
Has it something to do with the phone transfering data in both ends in this case?
WiFi and BT data at the same time?

But then again ( did not test it again at this moment) why is it that my Jabras have no issues then and a Dali does?
Why in the case of @Szczypior the Lenovo has no issues..the Technics does?
Again..with the HDMI Arc watching tv, movies no stuttering at all!

If possible ...,can somebody
test with the optical in output playing music with a cd player.?
It could be possible there is no stuttering in this case..
Other then streaming from the phone.

 

[wiimamp user]

Testing the Jabras and the Daliio6 again.
I will report in a moment..

Update..deleted the BT connections on my phone from the Jabras and the Dali.
Bluetooth and the phone itself on.

Jabra: No issues.
Dali: Stuttering...while streaming music. When selecting the Hdmi arc output the Dali has no issues.

Again..if possible..can somebody test it with the headphones _they also have issues with_ playing music from a cd player on the optical in output?
And please test it with watching TV on the HDMI arc selection too if you like.
What are your experiences?

 

[Shozzer]

Unfortunately I have neither HDMI Arc nor a CD player!

I have found that the Pro is inclined to stutter, irrespective of whether I am using Tidal direct or streaming from LMS. Both the Pro and the Amp suffer from ‘trilling’. Both effects render listening impossible. The Amp is better than the Pro. I can stream from LMS and listen to a portion of music before it starts trilling. I then have to pause it for a while and then continue.

I would be happy to test in a more rigorous and scientific way across all my devices if that would assist the devs.

Steve

Testing the Jabras and the Daliio6 again.
I will report in a moment..

Update..deleted the BT connections on my phone from the Jabras and the Dali.
Bluetooth and the phone itself on.

Jabra: No issues.
Dali: Stuttering...while streaming music. When selecting the Hdmi arc output the Dali has no issues.

Again..if possible..can somebody test it with the headphones _they also have issues with_ playing music from a cd player on the optical in output?
And please test it with watching TV on the HDMI arc selection too if you like.
What are your experiences?

 

[wiimamp user]

Hopefully others can test who have simular issues with the HDMI arc of Optical in output using BT.
Thanks for you,re reaction @Shozzer .
In my case: Streaming music with the Dali..stuttering. HDMI arc wathing tv with the Dali..no issues.
Jabra no issues at all.

 

[Szczypior]

As I said in my post all tried all sources on my Wiim Pro Plus:

• CD via optical
• RCA and turntable
• Network and Tidal Connect

Issue is the same for each one of these, so source doesn't matter meaning it is entirely issue with the data processing within Wiim itself. I noticed the issue is harmonic in some way and it occurs for 1s every 3 seconds or so.

I've created the ticket - 499034 yesterday evening EU time and got a reply Today:

We apologize for any inconvenience you're experiencing with Bluetooth output.



We've identified that some of our customers are experiencing compatibility issues between our Bluetooth output and certain headphone models. We want to assure you that our team is actively working on resolving these issues. Your experience and satisfaction are our top priorities, and we are committed to finding a solution as quickly as possible.



We appreciate your patience and understanding as we work through this challenge.

I think it is safe to say that they are pretty much aware of the issue and are working on it, but it might take some time to address it. I guess it's either related to the codec that the BT is using but I cannot think of any new way I could help with troubleshooting.

It is so funny that IMHO quite high-end headset have issues while these cheap ones have no problems in my case

 

[wiimamp user]

Still i woud like if someone tested the AMP with HDMI arc and optical in. Just for knowing for sure..if possible.

In my case the same..the cheaper Jabra,s Elite 7 pro,s no issues..the Dali stuttering( when streaming music), wacthing tv,netflix,youtube on tv(HDMI arc) all woring fine with the Dali.

 

[Shozzer]

Yes! How does that work out - it is counter intuitive to what you would expect. My (very) cheap BT headband which I use for sleep works well with the Amp. I need to test it again with the Pro.

Steve

It is so funny that IMHO quite high-end headset have issues while these cheap ones have no problems in my case