Differences in DACs

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Achim1811

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Maybe it's interesting for those who want an external DAC.

Yesterday we made again a little comparision. Three adult males of different generations, all of us experienced (whatever that means) music enthusiasts.

The basic setup:

Accuphase E4000 integrated amp

Klipsch Forte IV speakers

WiiM Pro with coax and optical alternating

Qobuz HiRes and HiRes files from my NAS



First DAC: a Fiio Taishan K03 (15 €)

Second DAC: a Cambridge DACMAGIC 200M newest version (600 €)

Third DAC: the DA60 option in my E4000 (no price tag here, because my wife sometimes strolls around here)



Very personal result: None of us was able to identify a difference in sound. Maybe people are around which are able...

So, before you spend hell of a lot of money (which is fun, I know) try the bottom end first. Maybe you save the investment for LPs ;)

Features like showing resolutions on a display or with leds are fine, but are they neccessary? Or the build quality. Here it is only about sound.


I am very interested in your opinions and/of experiences.
 
And what about the inbuilt wiim dac?

I posted a week or so ago about my unscientific comparison between the wiim dac and two others I have in my main hifi setup.
 
To be honest, this time we didn't check the line-out, the inbuilt dac.
I did that before and my conclusion was: not so bad as often "influenced". And when there is little money to spend I truely recommend to stay with it. (But as I am a gear obsessed, more boxes more fun ;) and I believe to hear a little improvement with the dig outs.)
The most improvement in sound will be via 1. speakers and 2. speaker placement. Or, if one likes it, in headphones.
When I think back a few decades....what we today are able have for small money in sound quality is more or less a miracle. But don't worry, grandpa will not again beginn to tell about 2WW ;)
 
Achim1811 said:
To be honest, this time we didn't check the line-out, the inbuilt dac.
I did that before and my conclusion was: not so bad as often "influenced". And when there is little money to spend I truely recommend to stay with it. (But as I am a gear obsessed, more boxes more fun ;) and I believe to hear a little improvement with the dig outs.)
The most improvement in sound will be via 1. speakers and 2. speaker placement. Or, if one likes it, in headphones.
When I think back a few decades....what we today are able have for small money in sound quality is more or less a miracle. But don't worry, grandpa will not again beginn to tell about 2WW ;)
Click to expand...
I think that a criticism of the built-in DAC is mainly due to the fact that higher quality external DACs are available for a reasonable price. It was quite comparable to the old DACs in my measurements so I can easily imagine that plenty of listeners would not need the external device to be satisfied.
 
My ears tell me the onboard DAC is ok but almost any external one is better.
The comment above about DACs with screen display of bit rate made me grin. I have seen some posts on here complaining that the WiiM isn't sending full 24/192 to someone's DAC and the (only) reason they know this is the case is because of the display on the DAC.
I realise none of my DACs have such display. Trust your ears. Most people can't identify anything over CD quality anyway.

On a related point. I have given up trying to get the WiiM Mini to play gapless properly with the LMS UPnP/DLNA Bridge in passthrough mode as the last firmware from WiiM has broken it. Instead I am using "Flow" mode which passes gapless perfectly at the cost of no metadata in the WiiM Home App (don't use it anyway) and a fixed bitrate which I have chosen to be 16/44.1 so no 24/192 but tbh I haven't noticed any sonic difference.
 
d6jg said:
My ears tell me the onboard DAC is ok but almost any external one is better.
The comment above about DACs with screen display of bit rate made me grin. I have seen some posts on here complaining that the WiiM isn't sending full 24/192 to someone's DAC and the (only) reason they know this is the case is because of the display on the DAC.
I realise none of my DACs have such display. Trust your ears. Most people can't identify anything over CD quality anyway.

On a related point. I have given up trying to get the WiiM Mini to play gapless properly with the LMS UPnP/DLNA Bridge in passthrough mode as the last firmware from WiiM has broken it. Instead I am using "Flow" mode which passes gapless perfectly at the cost of no metadata in the WiiM Home App (don't use it anyway) and a fixed bitrate which I have chosen to be 16/44.1 so no 24/192 but tbh I haven't noticed any sonic difference.
Click to expand...
Yes, gapless playback in case of WiiM and LMS is a constant hit or miss.
 
LMS is Logitech Media Server?
In WiiM app streaming with AMHD and Qobuz is gapless here.
 
Achim1811 said:
LMS is Logitech Media Server?
In WiiM app streaming with AMHD and Qobuz is gapless here.
Click to expand...
Yes it is Logitech Media Server
Qobuz, Tidal, Deezer etc is gapless in this mode but there is no support for Amazon or Apple on LMS - due to lack of open API in both cases
Control is via Material skin plugin on iOS, Android etc
This is RP via LMS

1682588536188.png
 
Speaking of dac, I have several of them. Schiit modi multibit, topping e50, smsl do 200, smsl sunskrit, topping ds50 and schiit modi plus. Each dac has its own sound signature depending on type of music I listen so I have them connected on a switcher and choose dac I like to listen. Next dac I will buy is rme.
 
You're absolutely right. My money goes mainly in turntable stuff and speakers. Good that everone can choose his own fetish ;)
 
Smartplug said:
Speaking of dac, I have several of them. Schiit modi multibit, topping e50, smsl do 200, smsl sunskrit, topping ds50 and schiit modi plus. Each dac has its own sound signature depending on type of music I listen so I have them connected on a switcher and choose dac I like to listen. Next dac I will buy is rme.
Click to expand...
I have always compared DACs to cartridges on a turntable.
Different cartridges, different sound.
Different DACs, different sound
 
No dac will make everyone happy as each one of them has its own character of sound. The multibit sound thick, lush and meat on the bones but lack the highest treble for cymbals on the other hand the ess chip has so much detail to a point you may call bright. If I spent my money on date, money is gone for just one night fun but with dac I can go back over and over and enjoy. Dac is an investment to satisfy my discriminating ear. I heard exotic price speakers that did not sound any better than my setup.
 
d6jg said:
But not as fiddly to set up correctly
Click to expand...
Strange....for me it is absolutely fun to adjust cartridges. Each of my turntables deserves it on a regular base. Everytime I got my whole bunch of adjusting tools my wife looks at me with this special forgiving eyes.... ;)
 
Achim1811 said:
Strange....for me it is absolutely fun to adjust cartridges. Each of my turntables deserves it on a regular base. Everytime I got my whole bunch of adjusting tools my wife looks at me with this special forgiving eyes.... ;)
Click to expand...
Neither do I. I have a turntable with 2 interchangeable arms (1 S-shaped and the other straight) and I enjoy changing cartridges often and this amuses me, but with certain cartridges with a not exactly regular shape it is sometimes difficult to have the right alignment. It takes patience and meticulousness. With DACs this does not happen.
Among the cartridges I have, the Denon 103/103R are, for me, among the easiest to set up.
 
I have several DACs, but my favorite is the Topping D50s for its level of detail, dynamic, soundstage (width-depth) and high frequency delivery (cymbals, hi-hats) even if the drummer uses brushes instead of sticks.
Can anyone suggest a DAC, that doesn't require a bank loan, with a sound as detailed and with the uncut or dull high frequencies as the D50s?
 
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