Pro, tidal connect, toslink sample frequency issues

[adamski]

Hi all.

Just sent this ticket, will post the reply, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's had similar issues.

I had the mini before, but sent it back as it didn't support high rate.

Hi. I previously had the mini and now I've purchased the Pro. I am streaming using Tidal connect with a hifi+ account. I am connected to my DAC via TOSLINK. MQA and EQ are off, mono is off, volume is fixed. Output set to highest setting. When I play the test audio my dac sees 192Khz When I play a track via wiim Pro my dac sees 48Khz. When I play the exact same track with a direct USB connection between my source and dac (i.e. no wiim) my dac sees 192Khz. What setting do I have wrong please that is stopping the transfer at the higher rate. I have effectively proved it's not hardware related as the wiim can present at 192khz when playing the test audio, and tidal can present the track at 192khz when hardwired and not streamed. Thanks.

 

[onlyoneme]

44.1 or 48 kHz is the source sample rate for any MQA content. To get higher rates you must decode it - "unfold". It can be done by a DAC if it's capable of doing that. It can be partially done by the WiiM when MQA is enabled, to get 88.2 or 96 kHz.

 

[Brantome]

Hi all.

Just sent this ticket, will post the reply, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's had similar issues.

I had the mini before, but sent it back as it didn't support high rate.

Hi. I previously had the mini and now I've purchased the Pro. I am streaming using Tidal connect with a hifi+ account. I am connected to my DAC via TOSLINK. MQA and EQ are off, mono is off, volume is fixed. Output set to highest setting. When I play the test audio my dac sees 192Khz When I play a track via wiim Pro my dac sees 48Khz. When I play the exact same track with a direct USB connection between my source and dac (i.e. no wiim) my dac sees 192Khz. What setting do I have wrong please that is stopping the transfer at the higher rate. I have effectively proved it's not hardware related as the wiim can present at 192khz when playing the test audio, and tidal can present the track at 192khz when hardwired and not streamed. Thanks.

In the Wiim home app under audio settings for your device, have you enabled MQA beta and then chosen one of the options there to see what best matches the capability of your DAC? What DAC are you using?

Also, I don’t understand your statement about the mini not supporting “high rate” - in that respect the Pro and the Mini are the same, they support the same range of bit depth and sample rates, and the settings I mention

 

[Achim1811]

For me it reads as if your DAC is not a MQA certified de/encoder. It would be helpful to let us know which DAC it is.
And, by the way, my recommendation after a long period with that fraud it came up to this decision: For me no gear with an MQA label on it exists any longer.
Leave Tidal, go Qobuz and everything will be fine with your DAC. You will dance to this 192 LED
And nobody shall tell me that Tidal UI and the connect option is necessar or even smart. Qobuz is as well curated and gives you all options within the WiiM app. If you need to be educated in chosing music for you, go Roon. Or if you will avoid that go to Bubble or McConnect, regarding to your universe.
Reclaimer: "Beyond right and wrong exists a place. We will meet there" (Rumi)

 

[Mr Ee]

For full mqa I believe you still need to use tidal connect, not tidal via the wiim app.
I know you wrote tidal connect - just reiterating for any others that might see this.

Oldish post, but I've not seen any update.

https://wiim.community.forum/threads/eq-audiophiles-look-away-now.280/post-4770

 

[adamski]

In the Wiim home app under audio settings for your device, have you enabled MQA beta and then chosen one of the options there to see what best matches the capability of your DAC? What DAC are you using?

Also, I don’t understand your statement about the mini not supporting “high rate” - in that respect the Pro and the Mini are the same, they support the same range of bit depth and sample rates, and the settings I mention

Hi Brantome.
Thanks for taking the time to comment on my post.
I have tried many different settings, including MQA beta on and off.
It is just very odd, as the dac sees the higher rate when sending the test audio signal, so AFAIK the settings must be correct.

With regards to the Mini, there was something that I needed it to do that I couldn't get it to support and Wiim told me to wait for the Pro! I thought that it could not support hi-res from Tidal Connect over a digital connection to an external DAC?

Cheers for now.

 

[adamski]

44.1 or 48 kHz is the source sample rate for any MQA content. To get higher rates you must decode it - "unfold". It can be done by a DAC if it's capable of doing that. It can be partially done by the WiiM when MQA is enabled, to get 88.2 or 96 kHz.

Hi There.
I can't see what else I can try - test audio comes across to the DAC at full rate, just not Tidal connect - when I hardwire to the DAC from the source with Tidal I get the higher rate presented to my DAC.

 

[onlyoneme]

Hi There.
I can't see what else I can try - test audio comes across to the DAC at full rate, just not Tidal connect - when I hardwire to the DAC from the source with Tidal I get the higher rate presented to my DAC.

Those things are not related. A test audio comes to the DAC without any processing. Tidal content must be unfolded first to get higher sample rates. Your DAC can be capable of full MQA decoding over USB and capable of MQA rendering only over spdif. Or even not capable of any MQA processing in such case.
To get any content unfolded by the WiiM your device must have:
- EQ off
- volume set to 100% or fixed
- resolution of the output port set to 96/24 or higher
- MQA enabled
- MQA capability set to the proper value according to the scenario, usually no MQA DAC or renderer only DAC
And Tidal Connect must be finally used.

 

[Mr Ee]

What dac?
Do you get 96khz when mqa beta is enabled and option is set to no mqa or renderer only?
Just to be sure - definitely tidal connect, not chromecast?

 

[adamski]

For me it reads as if your DAC is not a MQA certified de/encoder. It would be helpful to let us know which DAC it is.
And, by the way, my recommendation after a long period with that fraud it came up to this decision: For me no gear with an MQA label on it exists any longer.
Leave Tidal, go Qobuz and everything will be fine with your DAC. You will dance to this 192 LED
And nobody shall tell me that Tidal UI and the connect option is necessar or even smart. Qobuz is as well curated and gives you all options within the WiiM app. If you need to be educated in chosing music for you, go Roon. Or if you will avoid that go to Bubble or McConnect, regarding to your universe.
Reclaimer: "Beyond right and wrong exists a place. We will meet there" (Rumi)

Hi Achim
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
My DAC is a Chord Mojo.
I am just puzzled - as my DAC would appear to support the higher rates - it is happy when hard wired to a tablet, just the Wiim Pro won't send a digital out for Tidal at the higher rate??
So, you're saying Qobuz would just work out of the box???

 

[onlyoneme]

AFAIK Mojo has no MQA support at all.

All you can get is WiiM's first unfold to 88.2/96 kHz. This rate would be seen in the WiiM Home app when working properly and when the playback has been initiated in the Tidal app over Tidal Connect.

 

[Mr Ee]

it is happy when hard wired to a tablet

What do you mean happy? What rate does it show?
My guess would be 96khz max (green), with the first unfold being done in the tidal app itself.

 

[Achim1811]

@adamski
It is always dangerous to sell a personal opinion as the holy gral.
In my eyes and ears MQA is nothing than a big fraud. I was absolutely keen to have it a few years ago but not one of the promised improvements appeared. And as far as i see, the get what they earned.
As far as i know, your Mojo is not MQA ready.
But has all you need to have the fulliest possible resolutions. And Qobuz delivers it.
Maybe, no, surely i am not objective because of the above mentioned issues with MQA, you will find lot of info in the internet.
And also, i listen to albums, not to playlists where people sometimes tell mixes and suggestiond are better than anyother. Thats eventually related to my higher age. We called it mix tapes, when i was young. And tried to impress girls with our superb music taste. Thats long gone. Thanks heaven
But, back to Qobuz. The app is good, curation is good and the handling of new records every friday is the best i know.
So, yes. I prefer Qobuz together with the WiiM integration.

 

[Mr Ee]

Those things are not related. A test audio comes to the DAC without any processing. Tidal content must be unfolded first to get higher sample rates. Your DAC can be capable of full MQA decoding over USB and capable of MQA rendering only over spdif. Or even not capable of any MQA processing in such case.
To get any content unfolded by the WiiM your device must have:
- EQ off
- volume set to 100% or fixed
- resolution of the output port set to 96/24 or higher
- MQA enabled
- MQA capability set to the proper value according to the scenario, usually no MQA DAC or renderer only DAC
And Tidal Connect must be finally used.

Well.. yes, and maybe no...

For a dac like the mojo, with no mqa capabilities, then a bit accurate signal to the dac is irrelevant as it does not need to recognise such a signal to apply any mqa processing.

Maybe someone can test wiim's implementation - if mqa is enabled and set to no mqa capabilities, then even if eq is on or if volume isn't fixed then the wiim ought to perform the first unfold.
I'd do it, but I only have tidal hifi, not plus. For some reason, I don't believe the stair step marketing for sample rates....

 

[onlyoneme]

Believe me, analyzing which parts of DSP processing are applied before the unfold and which ones are applied after, is the last thing I would like to mention when I face endless MQA issues...

 

[onlyoneme]

But to make things clear, in case of the DAC without MQA capabilities and for WiiM's unfolding:
- EQ doesn't matter
- volume doesn't matter
and in case of MQA being fully decoded by the DAC
- resolution can be set to 48/24
- MQA can be disabled
and when the DAC works in the renderer mode all things mentioned before do matter.