ROON KILLER

[Tom R]

Now that I’ve got your attention……

I really love ROON but not the yearly subscription cost, so I’m looking for an alternative. I suspect there are a few others in the boat with me.

I bought a WiiM Pro + on Amazon, figuring I could take it back if I didn’t like it. I like it!

I’m using my WiiM Pro + as a Digital-to-Digital converter to drive my Schiit Yggdrasil DAC. That’s it. No other uses, except possibly analog out.

I have a large local file store and stream via Amazon Music and Qobuz. I manage the local file store with JRiver Media Center.


On startup I was pleasantly surprised at the capability of the WiiM iOS app.

Here is a list of features that I think should be incorporated into the WiiM ecosystem to bring it closer to the Roon experience.

I know some of these are redundant to the feature requests already posted and I’m in the process of upvoting those.

1. DSD decoding on the fly to 192/24 PCM.

2. Headphone cross fade.

3. Integration of local file services into the WiiM ecosystem so I don’t need JRiver or some other SW to play local files.

4. Better integration with Qobuz and Amazon Music apps. I know this is dependent on their available API functionality. An alternative would be to allow native format connectivity between native music service apps. Right now I get 44.1/16 out of Qobuz irrespective of the native bitrate and bitdepth when I try this from the Qobuz app. I don’t want to have to jump through hoops to do this.

5. Identification and casting to other DNLA devices in my home. I have a number of endpoints: 5x Sonos, RPi running ROPIEEE SW, etc. Roon finds them all and will play to them.

6. By mutual agreement with my partner voice activated spy devices are not allowed in our home. The WiiM Pro + has a mic and no verified way to disable it. Where is all the audio it records ending up? IDK. So a mic-ectomy is in the cards. This feature is problematic.

Those are the big ones. Thanks for reading.

Tom

 

[Wiimer]

6. By mutual agreement with my partner voice activated spy devices are not allowed in our home. The WiiM Pro + has a mic and no verified way to disable it. Where is all the audio it records ending up? IDK. So a mic-ectomy is in the cards. This feature is problematic.

I don't think there's much more to know about the microphone than the support team has explained here.

WiiM and user privacy

I have been looking for an audio streamer. A friend suggested the WiiM Pro or the new one Plus. However, another friend raised privacy concerns regarding these products. He said the built-in mic can be a listening device and the constant forced-on firmware upgrades are also a concern. What do...

forum.wiimhome.com

What you can do now is stick a well-chewed piece of chewing gum into the microphone hole of your WiiM.

 

[Achim1811]

I don't think there's much more to know about the microphone than the support team has explained here.

WiiM and user privacy

I have been looking for an audio streamer. A friend suggested the WiiM Pro or the new one Plus. However, another friend raised privacy concerns regarding these products. He said the built-in mic can be a listening device and the constant forced-on firmware upgrades are also a concern. What do...

forum.wiimhome.com

What you can do now is stick a well-chewed piece of chewing gum into the microphone hole of your WiiM.

But be careful! Use audiophile gum only! At least Blu Tack
Sorry, again and again I can not resist

 

[Brantome]

Now that I’ve got your attention……

I really love ROON but not the yearly subscription cost, so I’m looking for an alternative. I suspect there are a few others in the boat with me.

The first candidate that springs to mind as a potential Roon killer must be LMS - see this post and others in the Squeezelite subforum

WiiM Pro, Raspberry Pi 4 8GB

Just set up LMS on a 8GB Raspberry Pi 4 in a nice metal case with a 1TB SSD containing my ripped CDs, some LPs and more MP3s I should get round to replacing… Who needs Roon? ;) 🤣

forum.wiimhome.com

I bought a WiiM Pro + on Amazon, figuring I could take it back if I didn’t like it. I like it!

I’m using my WiiM Pro + as a Digital-to-Digital converter to drive my Schiit Yggdrasil DAC. That’s it. No other uses, except possibly analog out.

I have a large local file store and stream via Amazon Music and Qobuz. I manage the local file store with JRiver Media Center.


On startup I was pleasantly surprised at the capability of the WiiM iOS app.

Here is a list of features that I think should be incorporated into the WiiM ecosystem to bring it closer to the Roon experience.

I know some of these are redundant to the feature requests already posted and I’m in the process of upvoting those.

1. DSD decoding on the fly to 192/24 PCM.

2. Headphone cross fade.

3. Integration of local file services into the WiiM ecosystem so I don’t need JRiver or some other SW to play local files.

WiiM currently doesn't support SMB or CIFS file shares, so many use a good UPNP server like Minimserver or AssetUPNP, or even Plex or Kodi. The WiiM Home app though currently doesn't match the use of other client software like the excellent Android BubbleUPNP app which can also be used for Qobuz. On IOS, mConnect is another useful UPNP client app.

4. Better integration with Qobuz and Amazon Music apps. I know this is dependent on their available API functionality. An alternative would be to allow native format connectivity between native music service apps. Right now I get 44.1/16 out of Qobuz irrespective of the native bitrate and bitdepth when I try this from the Qobuz app. I don’t want to have to jump through hoops to do this.

You can use the native Amazon Music app to cast bit perfect up to 24/192 to your WiiM device using AlexaCast which is their casting mechanism. Just link your Amazon account to the WiiM Home app under the latter's Alexa section, and your WiiM device will appear as a target speaker in the Amazon Music app where you'll have the full range of its services on offer.

Since Qobuz doesn't yet have a native cast/connect mechanism, you can either ChromeCast up to 24/96 (a Qobuz imposed cap) to your ChromeCast enabled WiiM Pro, Pro Plus or Amp. Alternatively, use Qobuz from within BubbleUPNP to get up to 24/192 support. Your experience of only getting 16/44.1 suggests you may be using airplay.

5. Identification and casting to other DNLA devices in my home. I have a number of endpoints: 5x Sonos, RPi running ROPIEEE SW, etc. Roon finds them all and will play to them.

WiiM devices are UPNP control points and players, not servers, so can't cast to other DLNA/UPNP players, although I do seem to recall WiiM may be considering that in a future update.

6. By mutual agreement with my partner voice activated spy devices are not allowed in our home. The WiiM Pro + has a mic and no verified way to disable it. Where is all the audio it records ending up? IDK. So a mic-ectomy is in the cards. This feature is problematic.

The mic in the WiiM is only used for audio sync, it doesn't record any audio nor eavesdrop on conversations. Nor is it voice activated, let alone a spy device. If that's a concern, then stick some blutack over it...

 

[Brantome]

I don't think there's much more to know about the microphone than the support team has explained here.

WiiM and user privacy

I have been looking for an audio streamer. A friend suggested the WiiM Pro or the new one Plus. However, another friend raised privacy concerns regarding these products. He said the built-in mic can be a listening device and the constant forced-on firmware upgrades are also a concern. What do...

forum.wiimhome.com

What you can do now is stick a well-chewed piece of chewing gum into the microphone hole of your WiiM.

I wish what I had to say was of interest to anyone eavesdropping my echos (which they don't...)

 

[Wiimer]

But be careful! Use audiophile gum only! At least Blu Tack
Sorry, again and again I can not resist

Of course.
However, it's horribly expensive, and it doesn't improve the sound quality.

 

[Brantome]

Of course.
However, it's horribly expensive, and it doesn't improve the sound quality.

Has that been measured though?

Sorry...

 

[Tom R]

Thanks all for the great replies. I guess I need to take the time to learn about LMS and install it. I have to say I’m pretty happy with what I’ve seen so far. JRiver even shows the album covers when streaming from Qobuz or Amazon Music which is a nice feature.

 

[Balthazar B]

Thanks all for the great replies. I guess I need to take the time to learn about LMS and install it. I have to say I’m pretty happy with what I’ve seen so far. JRiver even shows the album covers when streaming from Qobuz or Amazon Music which is a nice feature. View attachment 3927

GitHub - CDrummond/lms-material: Material skin for SlimServer (Logitech Media Server)

Material skin for SlimServer (Logitech Media Server) - GitHub - CDrummond/lms-material: Material skin for SlimServer (Logitech Media Server)

github.com

 

[Tom R]

I’ve done a little research (very little) and it looks like LMS 8.0 can integrate streaming services. How much effort/extra plugins, etc. does it take to make this work, and how stable is it? Love the skin info, thanks!

 

[Balthazar B]

I’ve done a little research (very little) and it looks like LMS 8.0 can integrate streaming services. How much effort/extra plugins, etc. does it take to make this work, and how stable is it? Love the skin info, thanks!

Qobuz, Tidal, and Spotify are easy. For instance, https://github.com/pierrepoulpe/SqueezeboxQobuz.

Amazon isn't supported (because they don't want to be).

 

[Tom R]

Thanks again. I am reading through all the beginner and startup guides. I’m not concerned about Amazon Music. I’m tailgating on a friend’s AM plan, I use Qobuz mostly.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

The Wiim and LMS are certainly not Roon killers. Used LMS for years until Roon and I can’t go back to it, tried it many times since and it just doesn’t do it for me any more. Tried it again last week and it annoyed me too much within 5 mins it was disabled again. I don’t think Material Skin is all that people say it is either. It’s free so it has that for it but another case of you get what you pay for. As for Wiim home it’s functional but like all other devices it relies on APIs and all services give a very different experience. Without a unified approach to you own files and streaming it’s all a bit urggh to me.

 

[castalla]

The Wiim and LMS are certainly not Roon killers. Used LMS for years until Roon and I can’t go back to it, tried it many times since and it just doesn’t do it for me any more. Tried it again last week and it annoyed me too much within 5 mins it was disabled again. I don’t think Material Skin is all that people say it is either. It’s free so it has that for it but another case of you get what you pay for. As for Wiim home it’s functional but like all other devices it relies on APIs and all services give a very different experience. Without a unified approach to you own files and streaming it’s all a bit urggh to me.

So, briefly, what makes Roon so great?
In LMS you can have a library of local and streamed items - can't get more unified than that, can you?

 

[CrystalGipsy]

So, briefly, what makes Roon so great?
In LMS you can have a library of local and streamed items - can't get more unified than that, can you?

Search is fully unified not segregated to each plugin section. I only got this using Orange Squeeze app in LMS and it still wasn’t great. iPeng doesn’t do this.

That aside you have a concept of versions for albums which LMS doesn’t which groups releases of albums together regardless of where they originate so from your own library or from streaming and you can make any version your preferred choice once it’s in your library. So if you have Tidal and Qobuz they are both available as options to play when you choose that album.

Composition browser shows you all available versions of known compositions/songs on the platform you subscribe and in your library. This works for classical and non classical. This is great for finding different recordings of your favourite tracks by the original or covered by others.

You can change metadata and categorise them how you want as often this can be lacking or incorrect, add your own tags for more granular sorting, adding and changing genres, adding additional artists to credits that are missing, change the artwork of the album even modify the title and add version info. Basically anything you can do to local files you can’t do to streaming stuff in your library.

The full hyperlinks and breadcrumb trails that Roon uses are fantastic way of getting to know other music and artists, producers even engineers. I can see who played sax on a track I love and see what else they have been on and play it with a few clicks even if I don’t have it in my library. Leads down many musical journeys.

I did 5 years with LMS, before I switched and now done 6 with Roon and there is nothing that comes close to what Roon does for me. Plenty of other choices out there. I have tried them all, and they all are just lacking. LMS is great for what it is but it still feels very dated and I never felt as connected to my digital collection as I do with Roon. A sentiment shared by so many of its users. I prefer PlexAmp over LMS it and is now my backup choice but doesn’t still come close enough to being Roon.

 

[castalla]

All that fiddling... I'd never actually listen to anything!

Cheers.

 

[Tom R]

ROON also has great EQ and DSP options and headroom management tools. It transcodes DSD to PCM. ROON’s library management is outstanding, Like I said, I love ROON, just looking for a replacement that does what I need it to do. I may not find it but then I won’t feel trapped by steadily increasing prices and things like ROON ARC which I’ll never use.

Since switching to ROON 2.0 my user experience has degraded due to the need for persistent internet connectivity. I have lousy internet service here, so it becomes an issue. There is a workaround by going back to an orphaned earlier version.

I’ll try LMS and then there is also Plex so that’s another option.

 

[Mr Ee]

Right now I get 44.1/16 out of Qobuz

I see that airplay was suggested, but wondering if you're playing qobuz via the wiim home app, and once qobuz is opened via the wiim app whether you've pressed the 3 line menu in the top left (I think) and chosen the streaming quality from there?
I think this is a per wiim app setting i.e. needed to be set separately on each phone / tablet.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

All that fiddling... I'd never actually listen to anything!

Cheers.

I never stop listening. The two are not exclusive of each other. These features are for us collectors that like to have things just so. If they are of no interest to others it’s easy to not see there importance but it’s this level of detail that Roon allows and no other app does. It allows for much more streamlined experience, LMS for me now is just too clumsy and offers little in the way of managing library data in way I find useful. The artist info is too hidden and it really doesn’t make me explore at all. I like the journey it gives me. This alone is worth the price of admission, plus all the other features I use daily.

 

[Tom R]

I see that airplay was suggested, but wondering if you're playing qobuz via the wiim home app, and once qobuz is opened via the wiim app whether you've pressed the 3 line menu in the top left (I think) and chosen the streaming quality from there?
I think this is a per wiim app setting i.e. needed to be set separately on each phone / tablet.

Thanks for the info. I have no problem steaming Qobuz from the WiiM app and getting whatever bitrate/bit depth the file offers. 192-24 is no problem. Works great.
Amazon Music and JRiver also work fine for me.