Test WIIM pro+ with different power supplies

[Ryan]

Well I should receive my topping p50 tomorrow and so I'll be testing this. The p50 has 2x 5V/1A usb ports, and I intend to use both at the same time.
Those power draw numbers you mentioned for the WiiM sound right, so even though the team officially recommends a PS rated at 5V/1.5A minimum, I think it will be ok.

Max 0.9A draw from the WiiM Pro is manageable for the p50 imo. Guess I'll fond out if there are any performance issues!!

Im using the P50 and felt it made a difference to my sound. It also has more than enough power even when running both USB slots, one for the Wiim Pro Plus and they other is running a fan to cool my amp. No issues with lack of power supply at all.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

Im using the P50 and felt it made a difference to my sound. It also has more than enough power even when running both USB slots, one for the Wiim Pro Plus and they other is running a fan to cool my amp. No issues with lack of power supply at all.

Thanks for the feedback. I figured it would be the same for me.

Have you paired the p50 with an upstream AC regenerator or a DC blocker? I'm worried that my mains grid would be too noisy for the transformers in the p50 and cause them to hum...

 

[Ryan]

Thanks for the feedback. I figured it would be the same for me.

Have you paired the p50 with an upstream AC regenerator or a DC blocker? I'm worried that my mains grid would be too noisy for the transformers in the p50 and cause them to hum...

I haven't tried it with any Regenerator or AC blocker, my power seems to be pretty clean and stable where i live.

 

[Ian]

I'm intrigued by the idea of using linear power supplies etc
If I'm honest, I don't get it.
Surely all of the Wiim devices use switching regulators anyway?
It would be nice to see schematics of the Wiim devices. I imagine these to closely follow reference designs from chip manufacturers?

 

[BowsAndArrows]

I'm intrigued by the idea of using linear power supplies etc
If I'm honest, I don't get it.
Surely all of the Wiim devices use switching regulators anyway?
It would be nice to see schematics of the Wiim devices. I imagine these to closely follow reference designs from chip manufacturers?

you might wanna hold that thought, maybe try comparing your system on battery power vs mains first, and see if that makes a difference?
a high quality SMPS is almost always better than a cheap LPS.

see this talk from Rob Watts (Chord Electronics) and listen to the LPS part.

 

[whodiini]

This is a very nice talk by Rob Watts. Thanks for posting. I particularly liked his comment about noise being deliberately injected to make a cable sound better, or more detailed and listening fatigue being an arbiter of that. I completely agree. I have listened to many components that sound initially better and more detailed, only to fail the listening fatigue test months later. Lack of Depth is also a telltale sign of distortion.

The problem is that there are very few people who design high quality SMPS, and most of the SMPS wall warts are awful. A cheap regulated LPS beats a cheap SMPS (note the regulated word) for low power. Benchmark uses high quality SMPS in their products and evidently so does Chord.

When I Iooked at the Wiim Pro Plus circuit board, there did not seem to be any voltage regulators on the boards. In particular, the digital board did not have any large caps, seemed to just use the power provided thru the USB C connector. So it would seem that a Linear Regulated power supply would be better sounding than the stock SMPS.

 

[cc_rider]

In reality, the $220 WiiM Pro+ SINAD is within spittin' distance of a $6700 Chord DAC. No power supply "upgrades" will make any difference to the "sound" whatsoever, as both of these are completely transparent. But, believe what you will, lol.

 

[Ian]

you might wanna hold that thought, maybe try comparing your system on battery power vs mains first, and see if that makes a difference?
a high quality SMPS is almost always better than a cheap LPS.

see this talk from Rob Watts (Chord Electronics) and listen to the LPS part.

Tried batteries but found the electrochemical noise intolerable. Have you tried solar panels & super capacitors? Unbelievably good!!

 

[Ian]

This is a very nice talk by Rob Watts. Thanks for posting. I particularly liked his comment about noise being deliberately injected to make a cable sound better, or more detailed and listening fatigue being an arbiter of that. I completely agree. I have listened to many components that sound initially better and more detailed, only to fail the listening fatigue test months later. Lack of Depth is also a telltale sign of distortion.

The problem is that there are very few people who design high quality SMPS, and most of the SMPS wall warts are awful. A cheap regulated LPS beats a cheap SMPS (note the regulated word) for low power. Benchmark uses high quality SMPS in their products and evidently so does Chord.

When I Iooked at the Wiim Pro Plus circuit board, there did not seem to be any voltage regulators on the boards. In particular, the digital board did not have any large caps, seemed to just use the power provided thru the USB C connector. So it would seem that a Linear Regulated power supply would be better sounding than the stock SMPS.

And why would you expect large caps? What voltage regulator were you expecting? I can promise you that Wiim devices do NOT run on the 5v USB supply!

 

[whodiini]

"I can promise you that Wiim devices do NOT run on the 5v USB supply!" can you enlighten me how the Wiim Pro /Plus utilizes the 5V USB power to drive the digitial board? I noticed the audio board has two 4700µF caps. Thanks

 

[BowsAndArrows]

In reality, the $220 WiiM Pro+ SINAD is within spittin' distance of a $6700 Chord DAC. No power supply "upgrades" will make any difference to the "sound" whatsoever, as both of these are completely transparent. But, believe what you will, lol.

oh, so you've A/B tested the Hugo vs the WiiM Pro+ in the same rig?? wow, that's interesting to hear you say that there's no difference. cos i've heard a grand canyon sized gap betwen an SMSL D6S vs the Chord2 (which is MUCH cheaper than the Hugo) when my buddy upgraded, and it was crazy the amount of difference i heard! (i believe the SMSL also measures favourably when using the classic ASR measures like SINAD and freq response etc)

also, if you don't notice the difference then i'm curious... why do you use the RME ADI-2 DAC instead of the internal DAC in the WiiM mini you have? (sorry if i'm being ignorant to some glaring differences, but feel free to enlighten me)

 

[cc_rider]

Well, I’ve had the RME far longer than the WiiM, to start. It auto-switches between its three inputs, depending on which is active. It has balanced outputs to drive my pro monitors. It has a real volume control. It has VU meters and a spectrum analyzer. It has PEQ. It can be used in loopback mode to measure and it can check whether a path is bit perfect. Among many other things. Does it “sound” better than the WiiM? Unlikely.

 

[Mr Ee]

Does it “sound” better than the WiiM?

To me, the rme (and every one of my other dacs) absolutely sound better than the mini or pro analog output.
Can I tell the difference between all my other dacs?
Unlikely.

 

[edu]

Based on the existing reviews, WiiM Mini and Pro are using cheaper implementations for the analog output while Pro + is using a much better approach, comparable with Topping E30 and D10s.

 

[cooky560]

The Pro plus DAC easily sounds as good as the DAC in my one modern amp, a Cambridge Audio CXA-81. But I use the WiiM largely in vintage projects as an effective way to add the digital realm to the equipment.

 

[steadyshot]

Changing speakers cables from supra ply3.4s to qed xt40i and matching jumper cables with qed airlocs now make me prefer the internal dac of roksan. Probably the qed xt40i introduce less distortion than the supra , they sound clearer. The sound now has more body and air (and refinement ?)while still being very clear. Still using qed performance coaxial,ifi lan silencer and netgear gs108ev3 switch with qed and supra Ethernet cables and ifi I power x connected to an Audioquest power strip

 

[whodiini]

Thank you. I got a cheap tester RD TC64 and for all the dumb type supplies it read Samsung, whatever that means. With an appl charger it read Apple 2.4A and with my custom cable where D cables shorted it read QC2.0. I have on order a Finsri tester, which is supposed to be much better.. When I test with barrel to USB C adapters, it reads Samsung. It never reads DCP1.5A

It seems from what you say, many companies short the D cables. But if you use the stock pro cable, with the stock power adapter it doesnt report as 1.5A?

I just received a much better/more expensive FNSRI FNB58 USB tester and everything now makes sense. A dumb power supply shows no protocol with D+ lines at 1.8V, using the same supply with a cable with D+ and D- shorted reports as a DCP1.5A, like it should. The stock Wiim supply shows the same as a dumb power supply, with no protocol. It all makes sense with the Wiim just using the USB C input as just a dumb power supply input. Thanks for the comments and sorry for the confusion.

 

[MKUltra]

Changing speakers cables from supra ply3.4s to qed xt40i and matching jumper cables with qed airlocs now make me prefer the internal dac of roksan. Probably the qed xt40i introduce less distortion than the supra , they sound clearer. The sound now has more body and air (and refinement ?)while still being very clear.

Well of course, they are called air-locks for good reason. They lock air. So the sound has more air.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

Well, I’ve had the RME far longer than the WiiM, to start. It auto-switches between its three inputs, depending on which is active. It has balanced outputs to drive my pro monitors. It has a real volume control. It has VU meters and a spectrum analyzer. It has PEQ. It can be used in loopback mode to measure and it can check whether a path is bit perfect. Among many other things. Does it “sound” better than the WiiM? Unlikely.

Fair enough... Seems to me like you have nothing to lose by testing that theory at home, btw. Why not just compare even for fun or simple curiosity?!

People claiming that all bitperfect streamers are sonically equivalent is pretty common around the interwebs... But I'll be honest I'm not sure many would agree when you imply that there aren't significant differences in SQ even between DACs??!

 

[onlyoneme]

You missed an important assumption - this usually applies to devices that measure as transparent.