What products you'd like to see WiiM produce?

[Mike in NY]

Yep. Sonos' market share eclipses all of the "high end" streaming providers by far, and they "only" do 24/48.

The post being reacted to here never stated at any time that he required high sample rate support, simply that he wished for a USB input. There are certainly many different DACs that might see use in pairing with an inexpensive streamer that have only a USB input.

Topping D10 anyone? SPDIF or bust is pure dogma.

How about WiiM competing with Raspberry Pi as an inexpensive streaming option? USB only there, so if a WiiM Mini can offer Toslink only, perhaps there might one day be a version that is USB only, or even model that offers consumers a choice of Toslink, coax, or USB, kinda like chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry... or would that by definition cross straight into snake oil, a fool and his money, and minuscule market niches?

 

[Mike in NY]

When you say you will leave it that, you really can't can you?

Pot calls the kettle black.

didn't say there was 'no content available'

With the lack of content available in anything higher than 24/192, what would be the point?

Hmmm, perhaps you did say that, didn't you?

the market for content with sampling rates above 192k is miniscule

So what? This thread didn't ask how to define the size of a market opportunity, it asked what the current WiiM customers want WiiM to produce. Maybe WiiM would see this information and actually just add the ability to transcode/downsample on the fly so that these kinds of files are at least playable on a WiiM device where currently they are not. Maybe they would make a product with a USB input/output. I don't see how such a feature can be equated to purveyors of snake oil, or used only by fools and their money.

Anyway, when accusing people of moving goalposts, probably best not to do so yourself.

You moved them, from a discussion of proposed WiiM products/features, to a parroting of groupthink that amounts to nothing more than painting certain things in very broad and negative strokes, which is generally a bad idea and not as impressive as you seem to think it is. The poor unwashed masses here don't need your shooting down of something as simple as the inclusion of a USB port as akin to the sale of snake oil, or the folly of "a fool and his money".

 

[joffy1780]

A lack of is not the same as none. Regarding pots and kettles, I didn't say I would leave the discussion, then continue replying, that was you. You brought up 'bits are bits' and claimed I said 'you can't hear a difference between anything anytime' or something or other. I implied you are a fool if you believe you can 'hear' a difference between USB and coax playing the same file.....I certainly stand by that, and if you believe you can then you are a fool, certainly.
It comes across like you have a problem with the objectivist viewpoint, not the other way round.

 

[Mike in NY]

A lack of is not the same as none. Regarding pots and kettles, I didn't say I would leave the discussion, then continue replying, that was you. You brought up 'bits are bits' and claimed I said 'you can't hear a difference between anything anytime' or something or other. I implied you are a fool if you believe you can 'hear' a difference between USB and coax playing the same file.....I certainly stand by that, and if you believe you can then you are a fool, certainly.
It comes across like you have a problem with the objectivist viewpoint, not the other way round.

I have a problem with groupthink, that which you have clearly fallen victim to when you feel the need to attack the mere suggestion of WiiM including a USB input in some future product. There is no objection to any objectivist viewpoint, except when parroted ad nauseam to something as innocuous as the inclusion of a USB input, complete with a flawed representation of what content is/is not available, or what constitutes a viable market. An "objectivist viewpoint" does not yield one size fits all answers to everything, but groupthink does.

 

[joffy1780]

You're overlooking the fact that I wasn't attacking the suggestion of the inclusion of a USB output, I was asking a question on why that would be needed, given the lack of content above 192k (lack of, remember, not absence of) You then decided to wade in and generally get your knickers in a right twist. I will be leaving it as it is from here, as you're not much fun are you?

 

[WIlliAmNPC]

To say that the issue is solved and that no one can hear differences in digital sources is a stretch. Thus the reason I have not been participating in this debate. @Mike in NY it was obvious that @joffy1780 was not here for a discussion the moment he told me that "There aren't any 'technical reasons' to prefer USB" and that "no DACs are being 'optimised' for USB". The whole industry continues to optimize to the world of digital audio. It's not 'done'. COAX is a digital standard but that doesn't mean its the best choice. At least I didn't mention I2S or HDMI (I wouldn't). And to say nothing of Toslink. Like, I said, I personally believe USB will become a digital standard in the future. It's accessible and easy to implement. Something that is worth considering. It might be more niche than using COAX but market share is market share and when your competitors are implementing it then you're losing ground at an early stage of the industry life cycle. Every little bit counts.

 

[mlsstl]

I don't want to be part of the debate, but would like to see a Wiim with USB out for a very simple reason. I have two preamps with built-in DACs (a Schiit Lyr 3 and an Asgard 3) that accept only USB input. That means if I want to use a Wiim with either of these, I'm stuck with the line output of the rather ordinary built-in DAC of the Wiim.

 

[WIlliAmNPC]

I expect the next BlueSound Node to include 2 USB sockets. One for USB-in and another for USB-out. There are other options that include this like the IFI Zen Stream however I wasn't a huge fan of the software. I just want both of these functionalities with a proper software to support it. WiiM and Bluesound both do a good job. I assume that Bluesound will get this out first so I will be buying that despite the price several $100 above the WiiM. Schiit is a perfect example of a DAC optimized for USB.

 

[Mike in NY]

given the lack of content above 192k (lack of, remember, not absence of)

Was it though?

With the lack of content available in anything higher than 24/192, what would be the point?

Perhaps just a poor choice of words then, or complete ignorance of the various music download for purchase sites, or even the ability to rip one's own SACD physical media to streamable files which have a 2.822 mHz sample rate.

Sir, you got up on a soapbox and started to pontificate about what the market wants, needs, or can hear any difference in, and made references to snake oil, as well as a fool and his money. Color me unimpressed.

 

[joffy1780]

You make it sound like I was talking to myself, rather than responding to posts.
There  is a lack of content available at rates higher than 192k, I never said there was no content available above 192k. Even though you have quoted me saying lack of, you're still adamant I meant none.

Was it though?

Perhaps just a poor choice of words then, or complete ignorance of the various music download for purchase sites, or even the ability to rip one's own SACD physical media to streamable files which have a 2.822 mHz sample rate.

Sir, you got up on a soapbox and started to pontificate about what the market wants, needs, or can hear any difference in, and made references to snake oil, as well as a fool and his money. Color me unimpressed.

 

[Alexandr_2023]

I'd like to see a good separate Wiim DAC. Even if it costs more than the player itself

 

[Wiimer]

Linkplay is not an audio manufacturer. In the future, I think they will need one of two things to create great audio products.

1, Audio-savvy staff
2, Collaboration with audio manufacturers

In addition, Wiim needs to acquire more novice users in order to expand its market. The new product Wiim needs now is an all-in-one device that integrates a power amplifier into the streamer.

It will be able to attract a large number of potential users who have been interested in audio since they started high-resolution streaming.

 

[Smartplug]

Most users use external dac and those dac comes with usb as standard feature. This is why wiim with usb is the most requested feature including myself.

 

[d6jg]

USB output is needed as there are an awful lot of quite high quality USB only DACs out there quite apart from the technical fact that it supports much higher than optical or coax where I would agree that golden ears would be required to hear any difference.

 

[onlyoneme]

USB output is needed as there are an awful lot of quite high quality USB only DACs out there quite apart from the technical fact that it supports much higher than optical or coax where I would agree that golden ears would be required to hear any difference.

The biggest difference is the clock source - streamer vs DAC. It can be especially important for DACs like those ones from Denafrips. No golden ear is needed to hear artifacts of the improper fifo reclocking when spdif incoming clock is in action.

 

[steadyshot]

A budget audiophile streamer , no dac, good clock , full size toslink and coax with galvanic isolation , good power supply at no more than 200usd.

There are a lot of people with serious hi fi equipment that want more from WiiM mini/pro and they use streamer only function.

We want a lumin/auralic killer!

 

[Brantome]

We want a lumin killer!

Some here already have that with their Linn gear

 

[onlyoneme]

A budget audiophile streamer , no dac, good clock , full size toslink and coax with galvanic isolation , good power supply at no more than 200usd.

There are a lot of people with serious hi fi equipment that want more from WiiM mini/pro and they use streamer only function.

We want a lumin/auralic killer!

Streamer's clock quality is not very important even in the case of spdif transmission as modern DACs can handle it. Power supply does matter only for non-isolated transmission or in the presence of very sensitive audio equipment in the audio path. Galvanic isolation for coax would be nice indeed as it's not expensive.

 

[Smartplug]

I’m not interested if it’s not streaming device. I’m looking forward an improvement beyond pro. Include the features what’s already on pro with additional usb, sub out and room correction.

 

[WIlliAmNPC]

I’m not interested if it’s not streaming device. I’m looking forward an improvement beyond pro. Include the features what’s already on pro with additional usb, sub out and room correction.

Agreed. Honestly I couldn't see WiiM broadening beyond streamers. Especially before at-least supporting a USB output.