Bluetooth latency problem - bug or expected behaviour?

[pjay]

Hi all,

For a few years now I've been happily using a laptop with audio being sent to bluetooth speaker systems (Yamaha YSP and edifier setups).

I fancied an upgrade and this week I was excited to receive a Wiim Amp + speakers, but this excitement has been rapidly diminished by the sheer amount of latency obtained with the bluetooth input.

Latency is of course to be expected with bluetooth, but with the Wiim amp I've been getting around 1200ms with a device distance of ~2 metres with no obstructions. In my mind this is maybe 4x what it should be.

I've tried disabling some of the Wiim functionality that would be buffered (EQ and Music Fade in/out) to try and achieve some kind of passthrough effect, but neither has made any noticable difference. I've tried turning off my wifi router to see if it's an interference issue, but again no joy.

I do wonder if it's not actually disabling the Fade in/out effect, as even with it disabled when I play a youtube video it misses the first second or so of audio and still fades in. Firmware version is 5.0.606744.

Did I make a mistake in expecting similar performance to my other sound systems? Any other tips or tricks before i'm forced to return this otherwise great little device?

Thanks.

 

[wiimamp user]

Hi all,

For a few years now I've been happily using a laptop with audio being sent to bluetooth speaker systems (Yamaha YSP and edifier setups).

I fancied an upgrade and this week I was excited to receive a Wiim Amp + speakers, but this excitement has been rapidly diminished by the sheer amount of latency obtained with the bluetooth input.

Latency is of course to be expected with bluetooth, but with the Wiim amp I've been getting around 1200ms with a device distance of ~2 metres with no obstructions. In my mind this is maybe 4x what it should be.

I've tried disabling some of the Wiim functionality that would be buffered (EQ and Music Fade in/out) to try and achieve some kind of passthrough effect, but neither has made any noticable difference. I've tried turning off my wifi router to see if it's an interference issue, but again no joy.

I do wonder if it's not actually disabling the Fade in/out effect, as even with it disabled when I play a youtube video it misses the first second or so of audio and still fades in. Firmware version is 5.0.606744.

Did I make a mistake in expecting similar performance to my other sound systems? Any other tips or tricks before i'm forced to return this otherwise great little device?

Thanks.

Did you contact WIIM? A option would be buying an bluetooth transmitter,reciever. The newest codecs with APTXLL. You can connect the transmitter via Toslink.

 

[pjay]

Thanks for the reply,

I thought this forum would be an appropriate place to ask the question in the first instance, really to gauge other peoples experiences & expectations (and to see if I had missed anything obvious).

Maybe my particular use-case is not the amps strongpoint & I made a poor buying decision?

I'm a little puzzled by the suggestion of the aptx-LL add-on; if the Wiim amp has close to 1.2 second delay in its BT processing, then a low latency BT solution would surely only lower that by 150ms or so, still leaving a full second delay - if, however, it resolves the problem then it would suggest that something in the Wiim's inbuilt bluetooth processing pipeline is sub-optimal.

 

[Wiimer]

Thanks for the reply,

I thought this forum would be an appropriate place to ask the question in the first instance, really to gauge other peoples experiences & expectations (and to see if I had missed anything obvious).

Maybe my particular use-case is not the amps strongpoint & I made a poor buying decision?

I'm a little puzzled by the suggestion of the aptx-LL add-on; if the Wiim amp has close to 1.2 second delay in its BT processing, then a low latency BT solution would surely only lower that by 150ms or so, still leaving a full second delay - if, however, it resolves the problem then it would suggest that something in the Wiim's inbuilt bluetooth processing pipeline is sub-optimal.

Where do you play Youtube from? Is it a TV's app connected to WiiM amp HDMI?

 

[pjay]

Hi Wiimer - sorry, I should've said I'm streaming from a laptop.

Edit - Actually I did, first sentence of first post

 

[Wiimer]

Hi Wiimer - sorry, I should've said I'm streaming from a laptop.

Edit - Actually I did, first sentence of first post

Sorry,
In other words, are you sending audio from your laptop to the WiiM amp via Airplay (or Chromecast), and then Bluetooth from the WiiM amp to the speakers?

In that case, the Bluetooth latency plus the Airplay (Chromecast) delay.
Or is the laptop connected to the WiiM amp by cable?

 

[pjay]

No, it's a direct Bluetooth connection from laptop to amp, with wired Dali speakers.

Sorry for not making myself clearer.

 

[Wiimer]

No, it's a direct Bluetooth connection from laptop to amp, with wired Dali speakers.

Sorry for not making myself clearer.

Thank you.
I don't know why there is such a big delay with Bluetooth from laptop to WiiM amp. Can you try Bluetooth on other devices (e.g. phones)?

Another suggestion is to open Youtube in your laptop's Chrome browser and see if you can cast audio with Chromecast.

 

[Brantome]

Thanks for the reply,

I thought this forum would be an appropriate place to ask the question in the first instance, really to gauge other peoples experiences & expectations (and to see if I had missed anything obvious).

Maybe my particular use-case is not the amps strongpoint & I made a poor buying decision?

I'm a little puzzled by the suggestion of the aptx-LL add-on; if the Wiim amp has close to 1.2 second delay in its BT processing, then a low latency BT solution would surely only lower that by 150ms or so, still leaving a full second delay - if, however, it resolves the problem then it would suggest that something in the Wiim's inbuilt bluetooth processing pipeline is sub-optimal.

I think the suggestion was not to use the WiiM's bluetooth but use a separate, potentially higher spec BT receiver that you could cable over RCA or optical into the WiiM. I do agree the WiiM should be able to do better than 1.2s though so I'd suggest submitting a ticket to WiiM - I know a few have already done so re BT issues, but the more who do so, hopefully the sooner WiiM will address it.

Chromecast as suggested above might be a better solution though if you can achieve that

 

[pjay]

I've tried three different devices now (laptop, mobile & tablet) and each exhibited close to the same latency - interestingly though, disconnecting and reconnecting a few times with the tablet caused a connection that had a much lower latency - I didn't measure it, but it was low enough to the point of being watchable, so the latency appears to be varying on reconnection.

Casting either youtube or netflix via chrome browser caused about 2 second delay to the sound, so it's a no-go. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[wiimamp user]

Could you explain how you're set up is? Do you want to watch videos?

 

[pjay]

I'm not sure what more explanation I can give here that I haven't already covered.

I have a laptop that i've used for years with various other audio devices via a bluetooth connection & haven't had any issues.

This laptop is used for typical laptop things, such as listening to music while i'm working & watching youtube, netflix etc,.

Connecting the same laptop via bluetooth to the Wiim amp (with wired speakers) is exhibiting an excessive amount of latency of greater than a second, making it unsuitable for the purpose of watching videos.

There's a clear fade-in of audio when starting a video, so I've disabled the fade in/out option in an attempt to reduce what I think is excessive buffering, but it made no difference. Same with the EQ functionality.

It was replacing a 10 year old soundbar, so it was also going to be connected to the TV, but I've not investigated any further functionality due to it failing at one of my initial requirements.

 

[Wiimer]

Now that the WiiM amp has arrived, I'm going to test Bluetooth later.

 

[Wiimer]

I connected my Android 13 tablet to a WiiM amp via Bluetooth and did a latency test with a YouTube video. As a result, there is a delay of 0.3 seconds. In my case, there seems to be no particular problem.

@pjay,
Now that your tablet has temporarily resolved the delay, it may be worth trying resetting your Bluetooth settings.

Remove all devices paired with your WiiM amp and turn off all Bluetooth. After that, reset your laptop's Bluetooth settings and pair your WiiM amp with just your laptop.

 

[pjay]

I've done all this and no joy - Tried a factory reset on the amp this morning and made no difference whatsoever.

What firmware version is yours running?

It's odd; during a youtube video this morning I noticed the delay was quite minimal, almost in-sync, but when I clicked a different video it played way out-of-sync again. There's something quite floaty about it all.

 

[wiimamp user]

How is the laptop connected? Im wondering if you would connect it with a cable( assuming you,re using wifi) whats would you experiene then?
But ok with other bleutooth speakers you hadn,t any problem..
Try rebooting the modem.
And what happens if you then use Chromcast? So chromecasting video,s to the AMP?

 

[Brantome]

How is the laptop connected? Im wondering if you would connect it with a cable( assuming you,re using wifi) whats would you experiene then?
And what happens if you then use Chromcast? So chromecasting video,s to the AMP?

Don’t you need YouTube Premum to cast just the audio?

 

[wiimamp user]

Don’t you need YouTube Premum to cast just the audio?

Could be the case indeed. You have youtube and Youtube music. But the casting option could be only available with premium.
I ask myself..with casting the delay would be minimal when you compare it using Bluetooth isn,t it?
I would always test it with my phone first..

 

[Brantome]

Could be the case indeed. You have youtube and Youtube music. But the casting option could be only available with premium.
I ask myself..with casting the delay would be minimal when you compare it using Bluetooth isn,t it?
I would always test it with my phone first..

Yeah, potentially should be less latency as it’s not encoding/decoding like BT

 

[wiimamp user]

Yeah, potentially should be less latency as it’s not encoding/decoding like BT

Maybe another factor is the wifi signal but i am assuming its ok in case of Pjay.
How far is the labtop,tablet,phone away from the modem? Trying to restart the modem maybe could help.

When using chromecast and there is an delay maybe Pjay has to select another stream on youtube to see of the delay goes away. Sometimes when starting a stream at first there could be a delay in the stream itself..switching to other you tube videos would be good to test this.
Trying to pause the stream..play it again would be also a way to make some tests.