Sound quality difference Plex vs. Amazon Unlimited through the Wiim

[FerengiROA]

I have been using the Wiim Pro for about 2 months now and I just noticed something that I was not expecting at all.

First, some data. I am using Amazon Unlimited after trials of the Big 3 Hi-Res services. I felt that I didn't hear enough of a consistent improvement, if any, between A, Q & T.

I am outputting Coax from the Wiim to a SMSL DAC/HP amp combo.

First, the good. The sound on most tracks is really clear and drums are nice and tight on good recordings. I'm doing most of my listening on headphones that I have had for around 6 years so I am very familiar with their sound signature.

But, lately, when I listen to songs that I am very familiar with, I had the sense that something was just different. I felt some of the liveliness or airiness was not as I had remembered it.

One example is ELP "From The Beginning", a song I loved for over 50 years and played countless times. The opening guitar just didn't have that clarity or pluck that I knew was there. The track is 24 bit/96khz. Plus, the noise/hiss is more than I remember.

I am using WiFi as my connection type and have fiber so speed or stability is not an issue. Excellent signal strength 24/7.

So, I played the same song from my Plex server through the Wiim Home Music Share; 16bit WAV file, and immediately noticed that the Plex WAV sounded better. It sounded how I always remembered it. The guitar had that luster back and the noise was also reduced. Tried a few other songs that I know very well and had very similar outcomes. What I can't understand, though, is why? Both ways are streamed on wifi, both are in either WAV or HiRes and equipment is the same. Only the stream is different.
This is not a subtle or inconclusive finding. I clearly hear the improvement using my Plex server. And, using an SPL, I volume matched almost identically, on my loudspeakers and headphones.

If anyone knows that song and can do a comparison, I would be curious as to what findings you come up with.

Don't get me wrong. I am not crapping on the Wiim. It's been rock solid since I got it but I felt something was just "off".

Any thoughts?

 

[onlyoneme]

I do not understand your post in the context of its title. Isn't it the local song file over Plex vs the song over Amazon Music, with the same audio devices in both cases?

 

[FerengiROA]

I do not understand your post in the context of its title. Isn't it the local song file over Plex vs the song over Amazon Music, with the same audio devices in both cases?

Yes, sorry I didn't make that clear. The local files are ripped CDs in mostly WAV or FLAC formats. Attached to my PC on a USB 3.2 Samsung T7 SSD. Then sent to the Wiim Pro via Plex.

 

[onlyoneme]

So there are few things to consider. First of all, streams are different. Your local CD quality rip vs Amazon's file. We don't even know if editions are the same.
Second thing, streams can differ a lot even if the sources are the same or very similar. I do not know if the Plex content is delivered unaltered to your WiiM. I do not know either if Amazon Music song is delivered with the full quality. How do you play from AM?

 

[FerengiROA]

Amazon Music is HD/UHD quality up to 192khz, which I don't really believe the hype. And, some AM tracks are re-mastered which doesn't necessarily mean "sounds better". The Wiim sends AM out to my DAC, as it does with Plex.

I was figuring since both AM and Plex are streaming lossless files that I probably wouldn't even hear a difference. But, it is very easy to pick out the superior file.

 

[Achim1811]

As usual, my 5 cents .
We've had this before if I remember right. It was about this special track, fading in or something?
Therefore my impressions are quite actual.
Compared Qobuz and Amazon MHD. The versions are nominally the same. CD quality, CD quality 2015 remaster, High Res 96/24.
Tested with my moderate equipment here. WiiM Pro, NAD integrated, DACMAGIC and HD820 headphones.
No ripped files from that album here yet. Write it on the to-do-list.
My subjective (beware the emergency exit) result: Greg's guitar sounds best in "normal old" CD quality. Neither the remaster nor the high res files came near it. Possibly related that this version was the second I have heard and the ear recognizes it as correct.
First version? Vinyl of course compared to my vinyl copy all that digital stuff loses in a landslide.

 

[onlyoneme]

Amazon Music is HD/UHD quality up to 192khz, which I don't really believe the hype. And, some AM tracks are re-mastered which doesn't necessarily mean "sounds better". The Wiim sends AM out to my DAC, as it does with Plex.

I was figuring since both AM and Plex are streaming lossless files that I probably wouldn't even hear a difference. But, it is very easy to pick out the superior file.

So you use WiiM Home app to play AM content, right? The app itself will say what's the stream resolution. But it will not say how this resolution had been achieved, ie. is it the native resolution or maybe resampled by AM from another one. And edition matters, especially for remastered content which can be particularly ugly.
The Plex can also alter the stream before it's published or casted for / to receiver. It can be resampled or DSPed in any way according to the Plex server setup.

 

[FerengiROA]

Now, I'm regretting getting rid of half of my CDs. Those were always my baseline. I could just compare the physical disc to the diff streams and see which source comes closest.

It's not the end of the world, mind you, but, to me it is very noticeable.

 

[Wiimer]

Amazon Music is HD/UHD quality up to 192khz, which I don't really believe the hype. And, some AM tracks are re-mastered which doesn't necessarily mean "sounds better". The Wiim sends AM out to my DAC, as it does with Plex.

I was figuring since both AM and Plex are streaming lossless files that I probably wouldn't even hear a difference. But, it is very easy to pick out the superior file.

Do you have 2 WiiMs?

When two Wiims are linked and played in Multiroom Music (MRM), Amazon Music also distributes UHD tracks in HD. Therefore, you can compare the same track in UHD and HD.

 

[FerengiROA]

"My subjective (beware the emergency exit) result: Greg's guitar sounds best in "normal old" CD quality. Neither the remaster nor the high res files came near it."

That's exactly how I hear it. The CD WAV through USB and Plex are superior to AM, IMO. My CD is over 30 years old. Ripped using Exact Audio Copy/dbPoweramp.

 

[FerengiROA]

Do you have 2 WiiMs?

When two Wiims are linked and played in Multiroom Music (MRM), Amazon Music also distributes UHD tracks in HD. Therefore, you can compare the same track in UHD and HD.

Nope, just one. I dont blame the Wiim because it is streaming the Plex file and its a superior sound. Just seems to be AM output.

 

[Achim1811]

Will never understand people completely replacing their CDs or vinyl for this soulless streams...ok, am a senile whinger.
More convenient, without doubt. But for me the physical ownership is an important part of granting respect to the artists. Of course I use streaming too, but still buy most of the music I like. To be honest, its getting less every day..there is not really new music I like. Even in classical music there is more and more repetition.
And most of the streams I hear are already in my collection. Hell of a lot as ripped CDs on a NAs. Or two. Space is an issue. So I can hear the streams with good conscience for my laziness.
For the remaining rest of my life I will not suffer missing music.
But, as an Italian mate always says, he likes to live in the greatest record store of the world

 

[FerengiROA]

Will never understand people completely replacing their CDs or vinyl for this soulless streams...ok, am a senile whinger.
More convenient, without doubt. But for me the physical ownership is an important part of granting respect to the artists. Of course I use streaming too, but still buy most of the music I like. To be honest, its getting less every day..there is not really new music I like. Even in classical music there is more and more repetition.
And most of the streams I hear are already in my collection. Hell of a lot as ripped CDs on a NAs. Or two. Space is an issue. So I can hear the streams with good conscience for my laziness.
For the remaining rest of my life I will not suffer missing music.
But, as an Italian mate always says, he likes to live in the greatest record store of the world

After getting married late in life, I needed to make room in my small Cape Cod home.

As I was boxing those CDs up for sale/giveaways, I knew I would regret it.

Moral of this story: Listen to your inner voices. Even if they're the "lunatic is in my head" variety.

 

[Achim1811]

My wife was always the one who insisted to hold the vinyl and the CDs. We had the space for the boxes though the storage was ugly and unsexy. It seems she knew me that days better than I did. And that didn't change till today. For 52 years in the meantime.
Now with our move to the smaller retirement home space becomes an issue again. But there is a cellar...

 

[FerengiROA]

The way things turned out, I should have kept the CDs and boxed up the wife

 

[nightrhyme]

Just came across this thread and I have a completely different experience. I have a vast flac collection of self ripped cds that I run on a dlna server. Bought the Wiim pro 2 months ago and also subscribed to tidal and Qobuz. And it very quickly became evident that Qobuz sounded so much better than everything else. Lush, warm and highly resolved. Then I spend considerable time comparing Tidal, Qobuz and local files. And here I found that Tidal sounds Almost Identical to local files but hard pressed maybe a little better than local files.

I also have Apple Music which is not possible to compare because of the limitations of Apple Music. you can only airplay2 to Wiim which sounds pretty mediocre.

However I also tested all the devices on Bluetooth headphone AirPods Max. Which is of course limited to 256kbps because of the Bluetooth codec. But here Apple Music absolutely kills the other devices. Maybe they are able to so,etching when played in their own hardware.

In conclusion on my Hifi system and my headfi system. I have no idea what Qobuz does, but they have rendered my local files useless. I hardly ever listen to them now. Well only to compare them to Qobuz releases. And not once has the local file sounded better. Well that goes for Tidal too.

 

[Achim1811]

The way things turned out, I should have kept the CDs and boxed up the wife

Bad idea and bad boy What are boxed albums compared to a loving wife.
(Show her this post, may be you are in perfect environment here. Only guys who understand women!)
Of course only the part between and the e in wife.

 

[Achim1811]

Just came across this thread and I have a completely different experience. I have a vast flac collection of self ripped cds that I run on a dlna server. Bought the Wiim pro 2 months ago and also subscribed to tidal and Qobuz. And it very quickly became evident that Qobuz sounded so much better than everything else. Lush, warm and highly resolved. Then I spend considerable time comparing Tidal, Qobuz and local files. And here I found that Tidal sounds Almost Identical to local files but hard pressed maybe a little better than local files.

I also have Apple Music which is not possible to compare because of the limitations of Apple Music. you can only airplay2 to Wiim which sounds pretty mediocre.

However I also tested all the devices on Bluetooth headphone AirPods Max. Which is of course limited to 256kbps because of the Bluetooth codec. But here Apple Music absolutely kills the other devices. Maybe they are able to so,etching when played in their own hardware.

In conclusion on my Hifi system and my headfi system. I have no idea what Qobuz does, but they have rendered my local files useless. I hardly ever listen to them now. Well only to compare them to Qobuz releases. And not once has the local file sounded better. Well that goes for Tidal too.

Being with Qobuz from their first appearance in Germany. Tried them all, including this bs MQA from Tidal. No competition, not Tidal and not Amazon HD. Apple Music is a special case.
It is more or less my personal feeling which is more satisfied when listening to an album I once paid. Lunatic? May be, but this way is my way. What I will not confirm is that Q. sounds "better" than my ripped albums. Even not different. But again, feeling...nothing more than feeling. There will be a lot of people who disagree. But also a lot people will agree. Isn't music all about feeling?
Totally agree with Apple Music and the Airpod Max. And also the Airpod 3. No idea how Apple does it. But even a last generation Sony1000 something with LDAC can not come close.
Wrote before somewhere that I love this Dolby Atmos nonsense. Has nothing to do with serious music reproduction. But its great fun! For music, cinema is of course another case.

 

[nightrhyme]

Being with Qobuz from their first appearance in Germany. Tried them all, including this bs MQA from Tidal. No competition, not Tidal and not Amazon HD. Apple Music is a special case.
It is more or less my personal feeling which is more satisfied when listening to an album I once paid. Lunatic? May be, but this way is my way. What I will not confirm is that Q. sounds "better" than my ripped albums. Even not different. But again, feeling...nothing more than feeling. There will be a lot of people who disagree. But also a lot people will agree. Isn't music all about feeling?
Totally agree with Apple Music and the Airpod Max. And also the Airpod 3. No idea how Apple does it. But even a last generation Sony1000 something with LDAC can not come close.
Wrote before somewhere that I love this Dolby Atmos nonsense. Has nothing to do with serious music reproduction. But its great fun! For music, cinema is of course another case.

Thank you for you personal insights.

I wish I could invite you over for a blind listening test
I did to a couple of friends who all clearly differentiated Qobuz from tidal and local files.

I actually mailed Qobuz about the Apple Music superior sound on Bluetooth. They forwarded it to their development team. But I don’t think they can do anything about it.

 

[Achim1811]

To far away from Germany?
I will give the invitation also!