Integrating Music Services

[WiiM Team]

Hi, we'd like to see what music services you want integrated into our WiiM Home app.

Please note, we hear you on Apple Music and YouTube Music as those are two we would love to integrate, but aside from these two, please post which ones you'd like to see and please vote up the ones you want. We are curious about what our community wants, and we'll see what we can do!

--
2/13/24 - We closed this thread and want to move the conversation to this thread where there is a poll. https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/integrating-music-services-poll.2816/

Thanks!
WiiM Team

 

[g3rain1]

Plex / Plexamp would be great!

You can already if you enable DLNA server on your Plex box.

 

[shinedou]

You can already if you enable DLNA server on your Plex box.

The ask here is for the wiim to be a plexamp endpoint that can be remote controlled by the Plexamp app.

 

[StoneFree]

DLNA just gives a list view, and a slow one.

 

[simbun]

DLNA just gives a list view, and a slow one.

List view yes, but speed will be dependant on your server (software and hardware).

 

[StoneFree]

May be true; my server is fast enough for Plex / Plexamp, but slow when accessing 280k music files with DLNA.
DLNA requires that your player is on the same local network as your music files. With Plex you can play your music anywhere as long as you are on the internet.
And with album art.
Of course I can stream Plex music thru bluetooth or airplay as well, but then the quality suffers because it is not lossless / bit perfect anymore. I know there are different solutions, but none that is as good as Plex integration in the Wiim environment.

 

[simbun]

May be true; my server is fast enough for Plex / Plexamp, but slow when accessing 280k music files with DLNA.

If you're using Plex as the DLNA server then it's probably down to Plex, as it's the media server and its indexing that has the biggest impact on performance. The control point never even accesses your music, it's just fed xml by the media server for presentation so unless you're attempting to list ALL your albums at once the data transferred will be minimal, certainly relative to the artwork that it'll need to load.

DLNA requires that your player is on the same local network as your music files. With Plex you can play your music anywhere as long as you are on the internet.

This only works because it uses the Plex servers as a kind of relay doesn't it?
I would like to be able to isolate my UPnP speakers on a separate vlan (which you can do for most of the other protocols using mdns repeating), but not at the cost of requiring a permanent connection to a third party server.

I know there are different solutions, but none that is as good as Plex integration in the Wiim environment.

That's the benefit of having one server, with one app and one renderer I guess. For me the lack of choice is also its biggest drawback.

 

[StoneFree]

OK, we may be living in different worlds.
Plex has been working flawlessly with Sonos for years. I have a couple of Sonos speakers in different places and have used my whole library in those places without problems. I have the choice to access different Plex libraries everywhere. My server is permanently connected to the net with the Plex server, but is that a problem? Not for me.
A couple of weeks ago (as an example) I was playing my Plex music in my hotel in London, thru my iPhone: my server was as usual doing its thing in northern Scandinavia.

The lack of choice, if that is another problem, does not bother me much. I guess there are other options, but why fix a problem that works?
I would like to have other options than Sonos. Wiim may have been a good one. I could maybe sideload the Plex app in Eversolo, but that is beside the point. I do not have any Eversolo streamers.
I have used DLNA to access my music library, but that has been slow and a real drag when it comes to the visual part.

Why quarrel? I want Plex as an endpoint with Wiim, you don't. You do not have to use Plex at all and could probably live happily ever after with your solution, even if it is an option with Wiim.
Case closed.

 

[simbun]

Sorry I thought you were espousing the virtues of the full PlexAmp stack (Plex with the PlexAmp app and the PlexAmp endpoint) which is why I mentioned the limited options, although it's still mostly true given the lack of UPnP support ruling out the vast majority of Hi-Fi streamers.
I would love to understand their reasoning behind that decision as it closes off a big segment of the market.

 

[d6jg]

Sorry I thought you were espousing the virtues of the full PlexAmp stack (Plex with the PlexAmp app and the PlexAmp endpoint) which is why I mentioned the limited options, although it's still mostly true given the lack of UPnP support ruling out the vast majority of Hi-Fi streamers.
I would love to understand their reasoning behind that decision as it closes off a big segment of the market.

£/$/€

 

[simbun]

£/$/€

Development costs?

Unless that was a clause in the Sonos collaboration!

 

[TAG]

Hi, we'd like to see what music services you want integrated into our WiiM Home app.

Please note, we hear you on Apple Music and YouTube Music as those are two we would love to integrate, but aside from these two, please post which ones you'd like to see and please vote up the ones you want. We are curious about what our community wants, and we'll see what we can do!

SirusXM

 

[castalla]

Audible

 

[CrystalGipsy]

Sorry I thought you were espousing the virtues of the full PlexAmp stack (Plex with the PlexAmp app and the PlexAmp endpoint) which is why I mentioned the limited options, although it's still mostly true given the lack of UPnP support ruling out the vast majority of Hi-Fi streamers.
I would love to understand their reasoning behind that decision as it closes off a big segment of the market.

Because UPnP is really a pain in the neck as there is nothing universal about it. Every man and his dog implement their own version of it and compatibility of features across devices and apps isn’t great. Not all handle gapless well which in this day and age is ridiculous. Try using Audivarna it’s UPnP is a mess as are most UPnP control apps. It’s a system long past its retirement. I only ever revert to it when there really is no other choice.

 

[simbun]

Because UPnP is really a pain in the neck as there is nothing universal about it. Every man and his dog implement their own version of it and compatibility of features across devices and apps isn’t great. Not all handle gapless well which in this day and age is ridiculous. Try using Audivarna it’s UPnP is a mess as are most UPnP control apps. It’s a system long past its retirement. I only ever revert to it when there really is no other choice.

If you were creating a UPnP control point and the goal was compatibility with all servers and renderers then I absolutely agree, it's a huge undertaking, but Plex is already the server and control point, so it only needs to communicate with the renderer which would be a much simpler task.
The problem is, what other options are there that are in common use (by hardware manufacturers) and better for local playback?

I think UPnP gets a bad reputation because just about anyone can, and does attempt to implement it (because it's open). If you don't go dumpster diving for the free options, it has the best servers (in terms of tag support and configuration) and hardware support so is still the best option there is. Of course there will be bad implementations out there, just don't use/buy them.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

If you were creating a UPnP control point and the goal was compatibility with all servers and renderers then I absolutely agree, it's a huge undertaking, but Plex is already the server and control point, so it only needs to communicate with the renderer which would be a much simpler task.
The problem is, what other options are there that are in common use (by hardware manufacturers) and better for local playback?

I think UPnP gets a bad reputation because just about anyone can, and does attempt to implement it (because it's open). If you don't go dumpster diving for the free options, it has the best servers (in terms of tag support and configuration) and hardware support so is still the best option there is. Of course there will be bad implementations out there, just don't use/buy them.

It has a bad rep for the right reasons. Controller dies so does your music, only using the OpenHome subset allows for the queue to held on the server not controller. Personally not found one 3rd party apps that’s any good except Bubble UPnP but that had issues as well on certain renderers.
I have found many device work on with their own controller app as control points as it’s tweaked to work and then you have other things lacking such as a unified search etc it’s all siloed off. Tried a lot of 3rd party controllers and a lot tend to be flakey not found one that would control all my audio devices satisfactory. Audivarna for one isn’t cheap as a server/controller and it does struggle badly with playing over UPnP. This is why I went way back to LMS, with their endpoints and my own home built ones with Squeezelite and then last 6 years with Roon using their bridges or Roon Ready or Chromecast (which is gapless via Roon)

 

[JimFall]

Hi, we'd like to see what music services you want integrated into our WiiM Home app.

Please note, we hear you on Apple Music and YouTube Music as those are two we would love to integrate, but aside from these two, please post which ones you'd like to see and please vote up the ones you want. We are curious about what our community wants, and we'll see what we can do!

RADIO GARDEN please

 

[Brantome]

RADIO GARDEN please

Surely Radio Garden’s USP is its use of Google Earth to rotate the globe and choose a station? I can’t see them having an API for others to use that. I’d use its app and then airplay or ChromeCast to your WiiM.

 

[simbun]

Controller dies so does your music, only using the OpenHome subset allows for the queue to held on the server not controller.

So still better than Airplay 2 in that respect then
If OpenHome isn't built into the renderer you can use BubbleUPnP Server to add it, so use it.

Personally not found one 3rd party apps that’s any good except Bubble UPnP but that had issues as well on certain renderers.

How many apps do you want? Hi-Fi Cast is also good. I've no experience of the ios side of things.
I'd be interested to hear about renderers that haven't worked with BubbleUPnP as that's not been my experience. Were they DLNA certified? The BubbleUPnP dev is very responsive so if the fault lay with them they'll almost certainly provide a rapid fix for it, but it's likely the fault of the renderer so use a better one.

and then you have other things lacking such as a unified search etc it’s all siloed off. Tried a lot of 3rd party controllers and a lot tend to be flakey not found one that would control all my audio devices satisfactory.

Are you talking about third party services here? UPnP was designed for local file playback before any of these services existed, so that's nothing to do with UPnP.

This is why I went way back to LMS, with their endpoints and my own home built ones with Squeezelite and then last 6 years with Roon using their bridges or Roon Ready or Chromecast (which is gapless via Roon)

This is where I go back to availability; how many devices can you buy that come with squeezlite support? RAAT does have greater reach but it'll remain a niche because of its hardware requirements and cost.
I've never said that UPnP was the better streaming technology - although it does support gapless playback unlike Chromecast - because obviously it isn't, but it can be a very reliable system, its just that because there isn't a compulsory certification requirement you need to do the integration testing yourself.

 

[meltapple]

Prospective customer here. If there was plexamp support, I think I'd almost defo pick up a mini or pro.

 

[Stunk]

Plex/Plexamp endpoint please!